Tad Williams' Message Board

Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- 'God damn it, you've got to be kind.'
-    Kurt Vonnegut, 1922-2007

Welcome to the message board for tadwilliams.com. All comments are welcome, whether kudos or brickbats. However, please bear in mind that Tad would like this to be a friendly, civil message board, at least in the relations between users. We reserve the right to remove postings, or even ban postings, from anyone who crosses the boundary of reasonable taste. Basically, you can argue vigorously with someone, but watch your language, okay? We have a lot of young readers as well as grown-ups, so please show them some respect.

But the main requirement here is: have fun.


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#1 2017-08-04 21:34:49

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Oldest surviving Internet threads on MS&T?

As we celebrate Tad's long-awaited return to Osten Ard, I thought it would be interesting to read very old threads about Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. How did people view it, back in the day? What did they think would happen, before the series was complete?

This message board has existed since 2001. Prior to this site, though, there were earlier discussion boards. And far, far before the Tad Williams Fan Page Message Board, Guthwulf's Interactive Thesis, and The Lyst were posts on GEnie and rec.arts.sf.written. I haven't been able to find any old GEnie posts, but Google has archived rec.arts.sf.written.

The oldest surviving thread mentioning Tad that I can find on rec.arts.sf.written is this one from October 1991:

George Heintzelman wrote:

I could recommend, with one small reservation, the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn books by Tad Williams, with the problem that the third book is not out yet (grr....) and the second one took QUITE some time to
hit the shelves since the first one.  Its an amazing yarn.  I'm wondering how he will pull it all out of the fire, having finished the first two (which are, incidentally, _The Dragonbone Chair_ and _Stone of Farewell_. )  Good Reading!

It's funny how a less-than-two-year gap between books was seen back then as "QUITE some time". The gaps between Jordan and GRRM books would have driven these folks crazy!

It's also interesting to see a December 1991 thread with speculation on the page length of TGAT, and when it would be out.

Stephen R. Balzac wrote:

I ran into him at Silicon (Thanksgiving weekend) and he said that he was nearly done with the first draft. Apparently, it's rather long.  I'm sure someone can estimate better than I what time scale that translates to.

Andrew Sigel wrote:

If Tad can finish the book soon (say, by sometime in January), it will probably make the schedule for sometime in Fall 1992.  If it takes him much longer than that (and indications are that it might, since "nearly done" translates to 900 manuscript pages out of approximately 1200, and that doesn't take into account time for revisions), then don't look to see it before Spring 1993.  His publisher will naturally want to get the book out as quickly as possible, since he's one of their bestselling authors, but producing a book that large takes time.

And Andrew was exactly right, projecting Spring of 1993!

From January 1992:

Michael Burner wrote:

Does anyone know the title and release date of the third book in Tad Williams' trilogy "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn?"  The first two books were _The_Dragonbone_Chair_ (1988) and _Stone_of_Farewell_
(1990).

Oscar Cwajbaum wrote:

Tad has been saying "it's ALMOST done" for about 2 months now.  Best guess is late 92 or early 93.  The original turn-in date for the book was 1988. It's a little late. :)

Kaveh Baharestan wrote:

Ok. now does anyone know how LONG its going to be?  I have heard that its going to be called ".. Green_Angle_Tower..."  which is logical because that is were The Storm King was created (destroyed last).  A friend and i are betting 1200 to 1400 pages, we're also betting that it comes out in two books because few pubs are willing to print such a long book not written by S. King or Adams.

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

Start lifting weights. It's big (and it is NOT being split. Tad claims there's no place to split it and won't let it happen).

He's coming over tomorrow night, and I'll get an update then.

I asked Tad. He got a nasty look on his face, but I survived to tell about it. The manuscript has topped 1000 pages, and he says there are a couple of hundred to go (that could be 200. It could be 2000. The book is doing what it wants, and Tad is along for the ride right now). Seriously, he's looking at a book that will be somewhat larger in hardcover than Vinge's SUMMER QUEEN currently is. It's easily (very easily) a couple of months from completion, so figure summer or fall of 93 before it hits the shelves.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#2 2017-08-05 00:25:21

Olaf
Mantis
From: Germany
Registered: 2001-07-16
Posts: 4907
Website

Re: Oldest surviving Internet threads on MS&T?

That is fascinating to read :-)

Thank you for digging it up!


Scrollbearer

Writing books, especially long books, is a careful balance between laziness and masochism.
Tad Williams

 

#3 2017-08-05 00:51:17

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 361

Re: Oldest surviving Internet threads on MS&T?

I'm laughing at the idea of a 2 year gap between books being massive. These are really interesting, thanks for digging them up. Can you find any crazy theories for Green Angel Tower? There must be one or two posts on the False Messenger at least.

 

#4 2017-08-05 03:36:32

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Oldest surviving Internet threads on MS&T?

Olaf wrote:

That is fascinating to read :-)

Thank you for digging it up!

ajl3 wrote:

I'm laughing at the idea of a 2 year gap between books being massive. These are really interesting, thanks for digging them up. Can you find any crazy theories for Green Angel Tower? There must be one or two posts on the False Messenger at least.

So glad you guys enjoyed reading these messages as much as I have!

I didn't find any pre-TGAT speculation about the false messenger, but I did find threads like these, where some readers claimed to have figured out the false messenger, or other elements, all along.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#5 2017-08-05 12:12:46

Outsider
Pilgrim
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2008-04-29
Posts: 177
Website

Re: Oldest surviving Internet threads on MS&T?

I wish I was on the internet back in 91 but I don't think I even knew what the Internet was back then. I was 14 maybe?


"A witty saying proves nothing." -- Voltaire
"Bring back meat, we are not Zida'ya, to live on flowers and bee's milk." -- Kemme

Follow me on Twitter

 

#6 2017-08-05 13:06:08

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Oldest surviving Internet threads on MS&T?

Outsider wrote:

I wish I was on the internet back in 91 but I don't think I even knew what the Internet was back then. I was 14 maybe?

Your story is similar to mine.

Circa 1992, we had a computer with Internet connection in my high school. I conducted some searches for Tad Williams info, but the author databases we had had nothing on him, and other searches also proved fruitless. I didn't know anything about GEnie or mailing lists, and I doubt my school was even subscribed to anything like that. The Internet was still mostly a vision, not yet a reality for most.

My home computer (an IBM PCjr that I picked up at a garage sale) was ancient, and so it wasn't possible to get online.

It wasn't until circa 1995 that the Internet was really being hyped on TV and in magazines. Windows 95 had changed everything: for a thousand dollars, you could buy a computer that could be connected to the World Wide Web. I had no money at that time, but I started saving. I bought a modern computer in November 1997, and I was amazed to find the Tad Williams Fan Page and Guthwulf's MS&T Interactive Thesis.

The rest is history.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#7 2017-08-05 14:29:32

Maladroit
Pilgrim
From: Passamaquadey
Registered: 2001-06-03
Posts: 1843

Re: Oldest surviving Internet threads on MS&T?

Fun reading, Firs, thanks for sharing!


Maladroit, are you suggesting that imaginary chickens have no feelings?

You better be careful with that, or we might get boycotted -- well, chickencotted, I guess.  And that would make for a very paltry poultry party.  Which would be a pity.
-Tad

 

#8 2017-08-05 17:12:41

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Oldest surviving Internet threads on MS&T?

Maladroit wrote:

Fun reading, Firs, thanks for sharing!

No problem, Maladroit!


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#9 2017-08-07 16:18:00

Ad1tu
Pilgrim
From: Buffysadharc
Registered: 2004-02-22
Posts: 6336

Re: Oldest surviving Internet threads on MS&T?

ajl3 wrote:

I'm laughing at the idea of a 2 year gap between books being massive. These are really interesting, thanks for digging them up. Can you find any crazy theories for Green Angel Tower? There must be one or two posts on the False Messenger at least.

Right?! And "the original turn in date was in 1988". Pfft. 5 years late is NOTHING.


If you should do what makes you happy, and no one can tell you what makes you happy, then that means no one can tell you what to do!

Tamishu's Ramblings

 

#10 2017-08-07 20:26:24

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Oldest surviving Internet threads on MS&T?

Ad1tu wrote:

ajl3 wrote:

I'm laughing at the idea of a 2 year gap between books being massive. These are really interesting, thanks for digging them up. Can you find any crazy theories for Green Angel Tower? There must be one or two posts on the False Messenger at least.

Right?! And "the original turn in date was in 1988". Pfft. 5 years late is NOTHING.

"Sweet summer child..."

They just had no idea what the future would hold: dozens of partially-complete fantasy series, many often five or more years behind the previous book.

A two-year gap back then was terrible. How times have changed...


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

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