Tad Williams' Message Board

Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- 'God damn it, you've got to be kind.'
-    Kurt Vonnegut, 1922-2007

Welcome to the message board for tadwilliams.com. All comments are welcome, whether kudos or brickbats. However, please bear in mind that Tad would like this to be a friendly, civil message board, at least in the relations between users. We reserve the right to remove postings, or even ban postings, from anyone who crosses the boundary of reasonable taste. Basically, you can argue vigorously with someone, but watch your language, okay? We have a lot of young readers as well as grown-ups, so please show them some respect.

But the main requirement here is: have fun.


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#26 2014-04-04 18:14:13

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

Oh, great! Good luck with all of the updates, SS!


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#27 2014-04-28 16:39:45

Tad
Hierarch
From: California
Registered: 2001-05-30
Posts: 7612
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

I can't remember from my survey of the re-read, so I'm asking this here: Did you guys ever discover the Rule of Six?  Counting MS&T as three books, I seem to remember there were congruences between the chapter titles of all the books every six chapters, at least until I'd reached the part of TGAT where there were no longer earlier chapters with those numbers (because TGAT was longer than either of the first two.)

In other words, chapter six of all three shared similarities in the title.  Chapter twelve of all three, the same, and so on.

I can't remember how thorough and consistent it was, but I seem to remember it was a bit of an easter egg that I put in there, and nobody ever noticed.

(I think there was something similar in Otherland, but of a simpler variety, like the multiple of six chapter was always a Paul Jonas chapter or something.)


"I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours."

-- Dylan

 

#28 2014-04-28 19:33:17

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

If anyone caught that, it would be either Firsfron or Ylvs.  I certainly didn't.


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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Proud Member of the Log Brigade

 

#29 2014-04-28 20:27:55

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

No, we never caught that, as far as I recall. It would have been Ylvs or JustCharlotte, if anyone caught that, but I find no evidence that anyone participating in the re-read noticed those chapters. However, Ylvs did catch the fact that the names of some chapters in the first Bobby Dollar book appeared in the text of those particular chapters. We wondered why some chapters had this and others did not. (My crackpot theory that it was some strange Fibonacci sequence doesn't sound so entirely far-fetched now...)

We discovered many things. Ylvs did her patented Ylvs' MS&T Timeline, where she found a few timeline errors. Cyan discussed clothing and textiles of Osten Ard, pointing out lots of interesting sewing/knitting/weaving/darning facts along the way. Charlotte caught dozens, perhaps hundreds of onion references; she was also the one who pointed out that the Utukkus were Sumerian spirits or demons. Neemo came up with theories about the swords, how they 'talk', and what makes them tick. Years later, Magpie chimed in on vegetation in Osten Ard. A woman named Mona was the first (but not the last) to mention the "Ruyan's Own" salad dressing reference. And I helped out here and there, mentioning small things. But I don't think any of us caught a link between every six chapter.

I will say that we did catch a number of numeric references in the text: that threes and sixes are important: three swords, three Families of Gardenborn, three times the Conqueror Star appears in the sky, three volumes; six kings, six mounds, 666 is the year Ineluki's dark spell takes place. And nines and twelves: nine Sithi cities; twelve towers in Asu'a, twelve gates in Da'ai Chikiza, etc, etc.

But no. We never caught that, AFAIK. Not those of us doing the MS&T re-read, anyway. But however deep we go, there's another layer underneath. Like the depths of Asu'a... :)


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#30 2014-04-29 19:15:29

Ad1tu
Pilgrim
From: Buffysadharc
Registered: 2004-02-22
Posts: 6327

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

Ok, Firs, you mentioned onions, so here it is: Do people really just eat onions? In probably every fantasy book set in a medieval style period, and even some historical fiction, people are always eating onions. Whole. Like an apple. That just sounds SO WEIRD to me.

And no, I know I didn't catch the chapter bit. Honestly, up until maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I usually didn't even read chapter titles :S I never knew they could be important or interesting...


If you should do what makes you happy, and no one can tell you what makes you happy, then that means no one can tell you what to do!

Tamishu's Ramblings

 

#31 2014-04-29 19:52:04

Neemo
Pilgrim
From: Hamilton, ON, CA
Registered: 2005-03-28
Posts: 921
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

Green onions dipped in salt is something I remember that my grandmother used to do...dunno.if she still does, I tried it the other day was ok but wouldn't eat it as an everyday snack lol

I had a friend as a kid that ate yellow onions like an apple....yes it was weird lol

@ Tad...will definitely have to look for that pattern in the re-re-read!

Last edited by Neemo (2014-04-29 19:53:22)

 

#32 2014-04-29 22:42:06

JustCharlotte
Pilgrim
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2002-02-21
Posts: 1955

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

I remember a brief discussion about names of chapters in DBC - I think it may have been Ylvs who was speculating about a pattern in the names, but nothing like a 'rule of six'......

*goes a-hunting*

 

#33 2014-04-30 04:34:37

JustCharlotte
Pilgrim
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2002-02-21
Posts: 1955

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

DBC chapter 6: The cairn on the cliffs
SoF chapter 6: The nameless dead
TGAT chapter 6: The sea grave

*appreciative applause*

Very clever! And too subtle for me to notice without a heads-up. :-)

 

#34 2014-04-30 04:38:01

JustCharlotte
Pilgrim
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2002-02-21
Posts: 1955

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

And.....
Six silver sparrows
Birdsflight
Raven's dance

 

#35 2014-05-06 11:23:22

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

Ad1tu wrote:

Ok, Firs, you mentioned onions, so here it is: Do people really just eat onions? In probably every fantasy book set in a medieval style period, and even some historical fiction, people are always eating onions. Whole. Like an apple. That just sounds SO WEIRD to me.

Woops, just saw this.

Charlotte was the first one to mention how many (many!) onions are mentioned in MS&T, and that they go around eating raw onions by the handful. Which seems crazy. Everyone must have had terrible breath in Osten Ard. ;)

However, it's possible, and I've mentioned this before, that the onions they were eating were Sweet Onions. These don't have most of that oniony taste, and are instead very mild. We used to eat sweet onions when I was a kid, though we never ate them like an apple, which as you correctly point out, and which Charlotte also pointed out, appears to be the way Morgenes and Simon eat them in DBC. I can imagine eating a sweet onion, but not a regular onion, that way.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#36 2014-05-06 13:36:39

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

Neemo wrote:

Green onions dipped in salt is something I remember that my grandmother used to do...dunno.if she still does, I tried it the other day was ok but wouldn't eat it as an everyday snack lol

We used to eat green onions, too, which elsewhere are called 'scallions'. We ate them, or radishes, as a summer treat with dinner on Sundays. But having a small bite of a radish-sized root isn't the same as taking a big ole bite out of a whole onion.

We didn't dip green onions in salt. We did put salt (or sometimes sugar) on tomato slices.

I had a friend as a kid that ate yellow onions like an apple....yes it was weird lol

LOL! I guess some people enjoy onions that much.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#37 2014-05-07 17:53:59

Neemo
Pilgrim
From: Hamilton, ON, CA
Registered: 2005-03-28
Posts: 921
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

Are we gonna add onto existing threads or make new ones?

 

#38 2014-08-28 20:30:19

JirikisLoveSlave
Pilgrim
From: Texas
Registered: 2014-08-22
Posts: 207
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

I tried doing a search for HAIR but it kept bringing up CHAIR.... sigh.... way too much to sort through so I'm sorry...

So I'm just going to ask this... I was just thinking as I'm re-reading.... do you think the Sithi are BORN with white hair or do you think they're born with whatever color hair and it goes grey, then white as it would on a human but by the time we meet them all they are well over a century old.... so therefore white...? Just a random thought. And why are Aditu and Jiriki the only ones who have white hair in To Green Angel Tower? Can't be mourning as Likimeya still has her red hair.... could it be they want to show the kinship to the Norns? Could it be they want to shed all artifice in the face of the war?

I'm sure I"ll have other random queries as I keep re-reading and re-reading again....

 

#39 2014-08-28 21:05:41

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

This should be its own thread, rather than appended to the re-read thread index.

JirikisLoveSlave wrote:

I tried doing a search for HAIR but it kept bringing up CHAIR.... sigh.... way too much to sort through so I'm sorry...

So I'm just going to ask this... I was just thinking as I'm re-reading.... do you think the Sithi are BORN with white hair or do you think they're born with whatever color hair and it goes grey, then white as it would on a human but by the time we meet them all they are well over a century old.... so therefore white...? Just a random thought.

All the Gardenborn have white hair, so I think it is their natural color. And I think it does not grow gray, then white. This would be a sign of aging. Since hair is modified skin, and their skin remains unchanged throughout hundreds of years, that wouldn't make much sense.

And why are Aditu and Jiriki the only ones who have white hair in To Green Angel Tower? Can't be mourning as Likimeya still has her red hair.... could it be they want to show the kinship to the Norns? Could it be they want to shed all artifice in the face of the war?

Tad recently confirmed (in the TWC Speculation Thread) that Sithi sibling hair synchronicity is a real thing. So if one of them un-dyed his/her hair, I guess the other one would, too, in solidarity.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#40 2014-08-29 16:11:43

Auros
Pilgrim
From: San Mateo, CA
Registered: 2001-11-23
Posts: 7594
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

I have been told by friends born in eastern European countries that their older relatives would eat raw onions, typically by holding them and slicing off pieces with a knife.  Probably sweet varieties, but still, I imagine that would give you pretty bad breath.  On the other hand, so would the lack of dental technology.

Question: I'm up tp DBC Chapter 33.  Does that put me ahead of the re-read conversation? (Well, and more to the point: If I follow the re-read thread, am I going to get spoiled?)

I can see why the series made such a splash and established Tad's reputation.  (I remember Deb talking at the moot at the Soquel place about encountering and being like, "WE MUST GET THE UK RIGHTS TO THIS!")  It's compulsively readable, and the characters and setting are fantastic.

Last edited by Auros (2014-08-29 16:12:18)


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#41 2014-08-29 16:18:20

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

Auros wrote:

Question: I'm up tp DBC Chapter 33.  Does that put me ahead of the re-read conversation? (Well, and more to the point: If I follow the re-read thread, am I going to get spoiled?)

Yes, you will get spoiled. So don't read the threads until you've finished the series.

I can see why the series made such a splash and established Tad's reputation.  (I remember Deb talking at the moot at the Soquel place about encountering and being like, "WE MUST GET THE UK RIGHTS TO THIS!")  It's compulsively readable, and the characters and setting are fantastic.

Yeah, I remember Deborah telling us that story. :) And she was so right. When I first read DBC, 25 years ago, I was in awe of the story. I still am. I totally agree with "compulsively readable". The characters have been with me ever since.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#42 2016-01-16 00:56:57

Olaf
Mantis
From: Germany
Registered: 2001-07-16
Posts: 4905
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

I have just published a new post for TW.com about re-reading MST.

Re-Reading MST


Scrollbearer

Writing books, especially long books, is a careful balance between laziness and masochism.
Tad Williams

 

#43 2016-01-16 12:47:56

Blue&Green
Pilgrim
Registered: 2012-08-22
Posts: 209

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

I have no idea when I'll get around to my reread of the series. It will be my third reread of the series, and I don't do that often.

 

#44 2016-01-16 13:04:17

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8752
Website

Re: !!!! MS&T RE-READ THREAD INDEX !!!!

I'm guessing I'll do mine during the christmas+new year break and into January.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

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