The second "s" shows possession.

The Shadowheart series is Tad's series; therefore, the "'s" at the end of "Williams."

Some people just put the apostrophe, but I was taught "if you can pronounce it, write it," so the extra "s" is appropriate here.

Last edited by Em (2011-01-08 19:54:00)

Jadelin wrote:

Words ending with s, z or x generally omit the "s."

The operative word here is "generally."

If adding the "s" makes an awkward "iz" sound at the end of the word, leave off the "s." A singular possessive of "Suess," would be pronounced "Suess-iz" and it makes sense to leave it off. Contrast the singular possessive form of "Williams." You would pronounce it "Williams"; therefore, the final "s" is correct.

If in doubt, I re-write the sentence along the line of "the books of Tad Williams."

It also depends on whether you are writing it for people who speak the Queen's English or those dirty seccessionists ;)

Here, at least, you omit the s. I.e. "Williams' log was large and impressed a great host of people."

-X

Last edited by Genisis X (2011-01-09 16:18:33)

I think I will use the s. I don't want to be a bloody secessionist. And the paper will hopefully be published in England. So, that makes it the Queen's English, right? Although, just yesterday, while reading Otherland (British edition) I saw a sentence like  "Grandfather Mantis' soandso..." Sigh. No matter, I must decide! Tradition it is. To hell with the Word spell checker (which keeps complaining at the word spellchecker too).

I think that, in this case, the written form does not correlate to the spoken form.  As I recall from the English grammer class that I flunked, the possessive form of a word that ends with the letter 's' is indicated with an apostrophe only, no second 's' after the apostrophe.  But that does not necessarily indicate the manner in which that possessive is spoken.  It's weird.  To me, feels right to say "keeping up with the Joneses" but wrong to say "Tad Williamses Otherland" even though I think the correct manner to present both sayings in written form would be "Jones'" and "Williams'" respectively.

As Em says, language is constantly evolving.  It makes me wonder if there truly is a definitive 'correct' form anymore.

cyan wrote:

Oh Damn, I just realized that I mix plural with possessive.  Ignore!

Move on, people, nothing to see here.

Plurals. A whole different bag.

Jadelin wrote:

You should see what people in Germany do with apostrophes in English words (mostly on shop fronts), it's apostrophe anarchy. Over there, Tad would be spelled William's, definitely.

I think in Germany it's actually legal to do that with English words (shocking, I know!), even though it hurts the eye in every possible way.

Unfortunately, I cannot really help you with your Williamsesses problem, since I'm currently busy trying to learn Dutch grammar and that results in my totally unlearning everything I ever learned about English or German (You wouldn't believe what the Dutch do with apostrophes. They put them on plurals!)

Anyhow! My completely messed up feeling tells me to drop the additional s. It looks and pronounces silly. "Mr. Williamses chariot is waiting right outside..." You can positively smell the ancient paper on which the sentence is written.

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Jadelin wrote:

You should see what people in Germany do with apostrophes in English words (mostly on shop fronts), it's apostrophe anarchy. Over there, Tad would be spelled William's, definitely.

Apostrophe anarchy isn't limited to German shops. US shops and restaurants are littered with apostrophe catastrophes. I notice it every week, and it's very annoying. Often you see it on hand-made signs, which is bad enough, but I occasionally see apostrophe abuse on professionally-made signs, which is... disturbing. I think, "Doesn't anyone else notice this?"

Oh, yes. I'm tempted to get out my Sharpie and correct them.

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Em wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Apostrophe anarchy isn't limited to German shops. US shops and restaurants are littered with apostrophe catastrophes. I notice it every week, and it's very annoying. Often you see it on hand-made signs, which is bad enough, but I occasionally see apostrophe abuse on professionally-made signs, which is... disturbing. I think, "Doesn't anyone else notice this?"

Oh, yes. I'm tempted to get out my Sharpie and correct them.

*sheepish grin*

I've actually removed apostrophes from a sign in a local restaurant advertising their different types of "Pizza's" on a sign which had removable lettering. I didn't confiscate the apostrophes, I just put them at the bottom of the sign, all by themselves.

Guerilla grammar! I love it!

Seitherin wrote:

The rationale behind singular and plural possessives does not apply to the actual names of people. When using an actual name, 's is used even if the name ends in s, x, or z.

... and another rule ... no wonder everyone's confused.

Seitherin wrote:

Em wrote:

Seitherin wrote:

The rationale behind singular and plural possessives does not apply to the actual names of people. When using an actual name, 's is used even if the name ends in s, x, or z.

... and another rule ... no wonder everyone's confused.

That's what makes English so much fun! ;-D

And lively discussion on the boards!

Jadelin wrote:

And if the darn conference chairs reject the paper

...you'll know never to submit a paper to office furniture again!



;) Good luck!