Tad Williams' Message Board

Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- 'God damn it, you've got to be kind.'
-    Kurt Vonnegut, 1922-2007

Welcome to the message board for tadwilliams.com. All comments are welcome, whether kudos or brickbats. However, please bear in mind that Tad would like this to be a friendly, civil message board, at least in the relations between users. We reserve the right to remove postings, or even ban postings, from anyone who crosses the boundary of reasonable taste. Basically, you can argue vigorously with someone, but watch your language, okay? We have a lot of young readers as well as grown-ups, so please show them some respect.

But the main requirement here is: have fun.


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#1 2001-06-19 15:44:00

Gashweir
Pilgrim
From: Boulder Creek
Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 429

Profanity in posts

Gashweir, honey, you need to edit that post RIGHT NOW and put **** where ever you have the "F" word in there...
I know, it ruins the quote (it happens to be one of my favorites as well), but I'd certainly hate to see you banned from the boards!

What do you all think?  Is profanity acceptable?  I do not intend to offend anyone, but at the same time I resent to some degree being told what to do.  However, since I want to be a good citizen of our little community I am willing to edit my language appropriately, if I am in the minority. 
   Could one of the heirarchs tell me if profanity is a bannable offense?


The rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces.  It is not God who kills children.  Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs.  It's us.  Only us.

Rorschach
The Watchmen

 

#2 2001-06-19 15:51:00

Jendaiya
Pilgrim
From: Canada
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 21821
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

I don't know that it would be bannable unless you were rude and/or insisted upon using it or insulted people with it all the time.

I do believe it is mentioned at the beginning of the messageboard to try to keep the profanity out of the posts. They get in sometimes, though. It may be not be the same to have to use other words, I am rather fond of profanity myself, but if we have junior members it is decent of us to try to keep things clean.

I try to think of things in a PG-13 type manner for posting. I got this from another site and it works well. Maybe if you use it you could put a warning. I know that is WAY lame and will only encourage people to look anyways. Just a thought.

I don't have a problem with it, but some people might.


Beauty will save the world.

~Prince Myshkin,

The Idiot, by Dostoevsky

 

#3 2001-06-19 15:53:00

Gashweir
Pilgrim
From: Boulder Creek
Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 429

Re: Profanity in posts

Thanks Jendaiya, I must have missed the part about keeping profanity out of the posts.

Sorry Gigi, I didn't know you really were saying that for my own protection.

[ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: Gashweir ]


The rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces.  It is not God who kills children.  Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs.  It's us.  Only us.

Rorschach
The Watchmen

 

#4 2001-06-19 16:06:00

Ian Johnson
Pilgrim
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 11635

Re: Profanity in posts

Perhaps if we put up a warning first?

 

#5 2001-06-19 16:18:00

Gigi
Pilgrim
From: dunno
Registered: 2001-06-15
Posts: 4214

Re: Profanity in posts

LOL - here we go. 

Ian, remember earlier today (for me, anyway) when we were discussing how it is easy to take things out of context without any body language to help us communicate?


Well, Gashweir, imagine me *flinching*, *sharp intake of breath*, and *flush of embarassment*.

I wasn't trying to be bossy at all, but I think you later realized that.  Sorry for the confusion.

[ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: Gigi ]


Giggling Lady of Doom

 

#6 2001-06-19 16:24:00

Tad
Hierarch
From: California
Registered: 2001-05-30
Posts: 6981
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

I'm very much of two minds about this myself.  Certainly in my daily life, I consider myself a proud and adept user of profanity in all its life-enhancing modalities.  But I try not to swear in front of my kids.

(Means Deb and I say "<swallow>'king hell!" a lot...)

But on the board, I wanted to create an environment where our readers from more polite backgrounds are not swatted in the face all the time.

The old GEnie community model of creative asterisking might work.  I don't really want to get into censoring things, and I certainly say "damn" and "hell" in my own posts without even considering leaving them out, so I might well be shocking somebody...

What do others think?


"God bless your crooked little heart."

- Tom Waits

 

#7 2001-06-19 16:31:00

keijukainen
Pilgrim
From: new york city
Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 855
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

i think "damn," "hell," "ass," & "bitch" are prob. ok--hey, they say those words on non-cable tv, don't they? (i could be wrong--i don't really watch it) ;)

anyone who's had the dubious pleasure of meeting me in rl ('cept perhaps for tad--i try to behave in the presence of respected authors ;) knows that i swear like a sailor. or a whole ship of 'em. but i think we should prob. keep it down in here--we do seem to be attracting lots of younguns (yay! get 'em while they're young!). & while they almost definitely KNOW all these words already, it might be less intimidating for them--& for anyone else w/tender ears--to not have to hear 'em.


hey happy tell me your story
hey happy give me your name
why have you been sitting there all quiet and shy
have i not been listening?
-amy martin

affinity * diffuse

 

#8 2001-06-19 16:36:00

markk
Pilgrim
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2001-05-31
Posts: 280

Re: Profanity in posts

This is a tough one, but on balance I'd say that the profanity ought to be discouraged, if not banned, on the principle that one can never know the sensitivies of everyone in the conversation and it's usually best to err on the side of caution.

On the other hand, it's a short step to casting a gimlet eye on bawdy content, which I would resist.

The key, I suppose, is whether the use of profanity is artistic or merely gauche. That, unfortunately, is a judgment call.

I think the old Genie asterisk method, coupled with mild moderator oversight, ought to do.

Mi dos centavos.

 

#9 2001-06-19 16:39:00

Jendaiya
Pilgrim
From: Canada
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 21821
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

Sometimes I get on ICQ with a friend and we have 'SouthPark' competitions, to see who can swear in the most creative manner. But that is on a private place. I agree with keeping it clean here. And, parents? if you don't teach your children to swear, someone else will. And then you will have them swearing all out of context, sounding like the proverbial logger. Best that they learn at home.

*wonders if anyone will realise that the last part was a joke*


Beauty will save the world.

~Prince Myshkin,

The Idiot, by Dostoevsky

 

#10 2001-06-19 16:40:00

Ian Johnson
Pilgrim
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 11635

Re: Profanity in posts

*sniff* Does this mean I can never quote Joyce again? *snuffle*

 

#11 2001-06-19 16:54:00

Gashweir
Pilgrim
From: Boulder Creek
Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 429

Re: Profanity in posts

This is way off topic but...

Tad, I've always pictured you as an unrepentant trash-talker when it comes to basketball.  Sort of a cross between Drazen Petrovich and Tim Hardway, but much more eloquent, and maybe not quite as able to back it up.  (Had to get the bball dig in, sorry)  Care to comment?


The rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces.  It is not God who kills children.  Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs.  It's us.  Only us.

Rorschach
The Watchmen

 

#12 2001-06-19 16:56:00

keijukainen
Pilgrim
From: new york city
Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 855
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

i don't think we should ban profanity, btw. i think most ppl would refrain fr. using it 'cept for justified occasions anyway--i mean, i don't think we're gonna have ppl running around swearing every other word.

i think message boards, lists, & the like tend to be self-policing about this, & i don't mean ppl getting jumped on by other ppl for swearing either.


hey happy tell me your story
hey happy give me your name
why have you been sitting there all quiet and shy
have i not been listening?
-amy martin

affinity * diffuse

 

#13 2001-06-19 17:14:00

strangeshe
Hierarch
From: Texas
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 11251

Re: Profanity in posts

I agree with no ban needed. In the time I've hung around the lyst, Guth's & the TWMB, I've never really seen it to be a problem -- certainly not like other areas of the net. Seems Tad attracts a higher-caliber crowd.

I think if folk want to use creative punctuation euphemisms that's fine, but I must say it was more jarring to see Stephenson's passage edited with ***s than had it been left in its original state.

If a poster wants to be offensive, they're going to achieve it whether they spell it out or bleep it out, especially since it's pretty easy to figure out the bleeps.

(Saw something recently along these very lines related to creative use of bleeping on late-night TV talk shows, Politically Incorrect and the like. They're increasingly allowing, even encouraging, 'anything goes' & relying on the censors to bleep it with the goal of bringing attention to how silly censoring can be. Or sommat. ;)

Then again, I also appreciate Tad wanting to prevent all that face swatting. Ouch!

[ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: StrangeShe ]

 

#14 2001-06-19 17:22:00

Ian Johnson
Pilgrim
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 11635

Re: Profanity in posts

To be honest, by the time myself and most of my classmates were ten or eleven we knew what was underneath all those asterixes and had even started to invent a few of our own.

 

#15 2001-06-19 17:39:00

dancing cow
Pilgrim
From: Berkeley, CA
Registered: 2001-06-13
Posts: 64

Re: Profanity in posts

the nature of this board limits the use of swears.  On the boards where you get a lot of swearing, the focus of the board is usually some sort of ranting.  Here it is much more of a "we love everyone here" type of discussion (seems to me, anyway).  A post full of swears would just not fit in here.  I can, however, see the occasional use in quotes and such.

On a less board related note, it seems to me that the danger in kids seeing and hearing swears, is not that they will learn it (which will happen regardless), but will start using it gratuitously and in an offensive way.


I got a pocketful of c-notes and foodstamps

 

#16 2001-06-19 17:57:00

Jendaiya
Pilgrim
From: Canada
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 21821
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

It's not the children we're 'protecting' It's the parents of the children.

I don't see a reason for a ban. There is a note about it and it looks as the we all follow it anyway. If it comes up once in a while, it shouldn't be a big problem.


Beauty will save the world.

~Prince Myshkin,

The Idiot, by Dostoevsky

 

#17 2001-06-19 18:37:00

Gigi
Pilgrim
From: dunno
Registered: 2001-06-15
Posts: 4214

Re: Profanity in posts

Jendaiya wrote:

I don't see a reason for a ban. There is a note about it and it looks as the we all follow it anyway. If it comes up once in a while, it shouldn't be a big problem.

That's what I was originally trying to say, but you know that we Americans hardly speak English, let alone get it right...


Giggling Lady of Doom

 

#18 2001-06-19 18:59:00

shadowsandice
Pilgrim
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2001-05-31
Posts: 17298
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

I don't think 's something that's going t' be a major problem here...
I used t' go t' a room where swearing was totally out of th' question.  Asteriks it, apostrophy it, just don't say it.  And this went for words like damn, crap and arse *could have a raging debate about th' spelling of that one, but won't*...which always seemed just stupid.  People knew what was meant, everyone did, so just blurring it didn't make a difference.
But, it was th' sort 'f room where people felt they were being opressed, and so would out right swear, and get banned for saying damn or something, and then come back and do it again.

This place isn't like that...people are...more grown up I think, and haven't been swearing much, 'n I don't think a ban is needed at all...unless someone keeps doing it 'n doesn't listen to 'no'...heh.

*hopes damn 'n bloody hell stay in th' okay zone though...wouldn't know how to talk without them*


silence-without - Bringing you the views of Tessadom
Wild and Free! Like a BADGER!!!  ::  Fight Club for BB posters

 

#19 2001-06-19 19:32:00

shadowsandice
Pilgrim
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2001-05-31
Posts: 17298
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

Here's a question I would really like answered.
"Bugger" in Australia is a general use word...very casual light swearing and gets used absolutely everywhere.
However...I know most of th' rest of th' world doesn't see it that way...'s anyone going to have hysterics 'f I use it?


silence-without - Bringing you the views of Tessadom
Wild and Free! Like a BADGER!!!  ::  Fight Club for BB posters

 

#20 2001-06-19 19:36:00

keijukainen
Pilgrim
From: new york city
Registered: 2001-06-05
Posts: 855
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

most ppl in the us don't know what it means, 'cept perhaps as a mild sort of generic swear word. i would prob. use it myself fr. time to time if i remembered it existed. :)


hey happy tell me your story
hey happy give me your name
why have you been sitting there all quiet and shy
have i not been listening?
-amy martin

affinity * diffuse

 

#21 2001-06-19 19:37:00

tilps
Pilgrim
From: Australia
Registered: 2001-06-03
Posts: 185

Re: Profanity in posts

milenium hand n shrimp

hmm dont ask me why :P

tilps - invisible oxymoron.

 

#22 2001-06-19 20:19:00

Seitherin
Mantis
From: Texas, near Houston
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 7033
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

Creative swearing story.

I was once invited to a fancy little get together by a friend who could not get a date and did not want to go alone.  I am not at all the 'fancy little get together' type, but I went.  Late in the evening as I was leaving, I stumbled across a conversation where a man was berating a woman for expressing her opinion, one that was contrary to his and therefore not worth hearing.  He berated her, and women in general, in rather high brow terms.  After he was done, the woman he was addressing looked very close to tears.  Another woman and a couple of men in the same conversation cluster looked shocked.

Being an outsider and a complete unknown and therefore immune from any consequences, I walked up to the man and told him that his tirade had amazed me.

"This has been an experience for me.  I have never before been witness to bovine excrement spewing from an equine posterior."

I bade them all a very good evening as I walked off and out of the party.


"The evil done by men of goodwill is the worst of all." Iain Pears, The Dream of Scipio

"Where all think alike, no one thinks very much." Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

So, I've got a blog . . . Now what? | A Stitch in Time | The Name Nook

 

#23 2001-06-19 20:51:00

shadowsandice
Pilgrim
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2001-05-31
Posts: 17298
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

Seitherin...you rock.


silence-without - Bringing you the views of Tessadom
Wild and Free! Like a BADGER!!!  ::  Fight Club for BB posters

 

#24 2001-06-19 22:16:00

Sam
Pilgrim
From: kansas
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 1225

Re: Profanity in posts

Mwahahaha!  (un)Creative asterisking for me!   And the really funny part is the fact that in RL, I do not swear as a general rule.  'What the heck' and 'this frikkin' sucks' are about the strongest phrases I use on a daily basis.  But you know, there is an upside to this.  When I do swear, it has an effect.  People tend to stop what they're doing and stare at me with their mouths wide open.  I'm highly amused by that.  Then again, I'm highly amused by almost everything except washing dishes, sweeping floors, and other people's injuries.  And coffee.  I'm most definitely not amused by coffee.


"When a ball dreams, it dreams it's a frisbee..." -- Stancil Johnson

 

#25 2001-06-20 02:46:00

SatanicPezDispenser
Pilgrim
From: Wisconsin
Registered: 2001-06-02
Posts: 31
Website

Re: Profanity in posts

Ah, censorship. Gotta love it. But would it be worse to:

A) Read a lot of profanity in a post
OR
B) Read a post which contains no swearing, but is highly offensive in other regards, such as racist or sexist

It's sort of a moot point, because if you can even read (and you can:), it won't take you too long to figure out that you don't like what certain people have to say, and will simply avoid reading his/her posts altogether.

Censorship is just another form of mind control, and it has gotten way out of hand. Suppose (for some bizarre reason or other) that you were raised to believe that the word "egg" was just as bad as "the f word" (refraining from using it here for the sake of the parents). Then every time you saw the word "egg," you (or your parents) would go into "Dr." Laura-style conniptions. The point I'm trying to make is that they're just words. It's not too difficult. And if you're really having a fit over such things, you need to lighten up.

-SPD


I'm so goth, I put on sunglasses when I open the refrigerator.
-Unknown

 

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