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Vash told of the torture thingy, but I can't remember him saying something like: He's dead. I thought the Autarch might keep the man alive for Quinny. But I wouldn't bet on it.

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Na, he saved her once and threw his own life away then. That was enough to prove his love. If he does reapear, it would be Sulepis showing him to hurt Quinnitan. Using him like a hostage. Though now, that there is poor Pigeon... 

Small question, because I'm a bit irritated by his realtionship to Briony, but: How old is Vansen?

*POUNCES YLVS*

I concur with Cyan's estimate of Vansen's age. Some clues from Shadowmarch (first book, so no spoilers here) are:

"He had come here half a dozen years ago and still could not begin to grow used to the size and liveliness of the place. People had told him that Southmarch was as nothing compared to Tessis in Syan or the sprawling ancient city-state of Hierosol with its two-score gates, but here were riches to spare for a young man from dark, lonely Daler's Troth, ..." [Ch. 2]

"You'll follow me as guard captain, Vansen", said the dying man. "I've told Brone. Himself has no powerful objections, though he thinks you a bit young. The great man's right, of course, but I wouldn't trust that ass Dyer with the bung from an empty cask and all the older men are too fat and lazy." [Ch. 2]

"The girl looked like she had been living out-of-doors for some time. Her matted hair and the grime on her face and hands makde it hard to tell how old she was: she could have been anything from a child just reaching womanhod to someone almost his own age." [Ch. 17, Vansen thinking of Willow]

"Vansen, who had spent most of the last ten years of his life trying to forget about raising hogs and sheep, leaned over and asked her, 'And what of Collumn? Your brother?'" [Ch. 18]

There are several other brief references to "the young captain", omitted since they add nothing.

So he left his parent's farm 10 years before the events of the story, arrived in Southmarch 6 years before as a naive young man, and is now old enough to be made captain of the castle guard, but is considered young for the job, and is young enough to think that a teenage girl might be judged to be nearly his own age.

I'd estimate 28 or 29.

In all of Vansen's musings about the inappropriateness of his feelings for Briony, he has always focused on their difference in station, never on the difference in their ages, which would have been likely to also appear as a theme in his self-recriminations if he were a lot older than her.

[ March 25, 2007: Message edited by: Teri Pettit ]

*wades in, hiding eyes*

i just got my copy of Shadowplay from amazon, so once i start reading it i can join the thread. i figured this was as good a place as any to squee about getting my copy finally! :)

I have updated by family tree of the Shadowmarch gods to include the cross-cultural names. Well, at least from the main three cultures. It doesn't show the Funderling or Skimmer names.
http://tpettit.best.vwh.net/misc/Shadowmarch_gods2.pdf

Corrections or additions welcome.

i'm too lazy to search this out, but has anyone
gotten a copy of Shadowplay that is missing pages?
my copy goes from page 178 to page 243. gah!!! i'm now stuck
at work with nothing to read!!

i'll be emailing amazon.com when i get home; hopefully
i'll get a new copy that's not missing pages.

AT bump

KEEP IT!!!
misprints might become valuable in time;)

Hi, everyone!

I know, I'm rather late with finishing Shadowplay, but then it's not as if time's running short. Who knows how long we have to go on pining for Volume 3, especially now that Tad threatens to get a life ...

I just dug out a post by Tad, made on Febuary 2005, giving us "some other questions to ponder". Now that we have a little more background information maybe we can go on doing so. 

Who arranged for the death of Kendrick?
...
Why do the Tollys want to rule over a castle under siege by the Qar?

We still don't know, but I'll wager a guess.
The Autarch seems to be interested in Southmarch. As far a I understood, he wants to perform a ritual that wakes the gods - at least the Oneyari (or however it is spelled) - and gives them an earthly existence that somehow unites the god Nushash and the autarch in one person.
The Components he needs to perform this ritual are:
*Quinnitan, probably to give birth to the gods' avatar.
*Olin, maybe as sacrifice.
*Southmarch Castle/Godsfall for the power that is hidden here since the gods (curiously not the Oneyari but the Surazeni) fell in sleep here. Probably something in the funderlings' mysteries, the Shining Man perhaps.
Therefore the autarch needs to get his foot into Southmarch.
He tries to convince Kenndrick and when he is rebuked he settles for Plan B.
That is: killing Kenndrick (via a demon) and setting his allies from Summerfield to get the Southmarch throne from the weak twins.
So my answer (by speculation) here is: the autarch staged most of the mishaps that befell the Eddon family. Maybe even the abduction of Olin.

Who is on the other side of Chaven's mirror? And where did Chaven go for all that time?

This is Kernios' mirror and the owl is Kernios' symbolic pet. But the gods are asleep. So the question still is open for speculations.

Why didn't Yasammez kill Barrick?

...

Why did the Autarch pick Qinnitan as a bride?

And why Olin as sacrifice (or however he is to help with the autarchs plans)?

Those questions seem to be closely related.
If this is about the Eddons and Quinitan having some Quarish heritage it makes me still wonder why. The Quar don't seem closer to the gods or more powerful than humans.
Apart from the ominous gift of the fireflower, that is.

Why did Yasammez stop short of attacking Southmarch Castle?

At least that one is answered, more or less.

Why is the Qar king blind? Why is the queen asleep?

Still no idea.

Why doesn't Williams write nice, sensible-length books like everyone else?

Good one.

and

Why do fools fall in love?

And that one puzzeled me most of all. Well, talking of Puzzle, he never showed any sign of falling in love apart from nearly falling in the barmaid's cleavage in "Shadowmarch".
So, who else is a fool or has fallen foolishly in love?
Vansen. But Briony is cute and after all, thats what heros do. Climbing to the netherworlds to get the hand of one princess or another and live happily ever after. Nothing unnatural about it.
That leaves Matty Tinwright. Actually I wondered how someone so selfposessed like Tinwright could fall in love so easily, nearly at first sight. And so utterly that he risks not only his career but also his beloved head for her.
But if he is played somehow, by whom and what for? He was set the task to kill her. What if he really had done so?

One little detail somewhere in the last chapters struck me. What is it with Vansen that in whatever misty or dark world he hangs around, there's always some female character that feels herself reminded of someone else by him?
In Shadowmarch it was his first Quar-contact, the woman he reminded of some mortal friend or spouse she once had.
In Shadowplay there is the girlchild guide along the Styx-like river. She as well helped him for the  sake of someone she felt reminded of.
So, has someone made this tour before?


P.S: Please be mercyful with my typos, I'm but a poor foreigner.

**Trying to learn about spoiler gaps**
**Trying to learn about spoiler gaps**
**Trying to learn about spoiler gaps**
**Trying to learn about spoiler gaps**
**Trying to learn about spoiler gaps**
**Trying to learn about spoiler gaps**
**Trying to learn about spoiler gaps**

the man from vansen's village who returned and never spoke a word again-probably(he might be a relative of vansen?)

As far as I remember, Vansen refers to him just as a man from his village, not as uncle Harry or something like it. But then people in small villages tend to be related in strange ways.
And to a Quar one male human may look just like another.
Not to the Charon-girl, though. She should see enough (deceased) humans to spot semblances only where they truly are to be found.

or
his father?i don't know how that one came to me,but somehow it would fit,wouldn't it? 

Yes, I thoght so, too. A little detour on his way from the Vuttish Islands, perhaps. And maybe an explanation why he should be such a strange father to Ferras - without much love but encouraging him in his dreams.

But again, it would only fit the Quar encounter. His death left him rather helpless (well, that is to be expected, but we're talking mystics here ...). He arrived sleeping, unable to find his way in the beyond. Hardly a way to make an impression on someone.

i got my replacement copy of shadowplay from amazon the other day, along with a return slip for the missing pages one. as soon as i can find a decent box, that sucker's going back.

i've already started back into the book and it's really grabbing me. not that the beginning didn't, but for some reason it took me a bit to get my 'bearings' in the shadowmarch universe; i didn't re-read the first book before buying shadowplay.