NOUN: 1. A cat, especially an old female cat. 2. An old woman considered to be ill-tempered.
ETYMOLOGY: Variant of graymalkin : gray1 + obsolete malkin, lower-class woman; see merkin. 

Never again tell me you don't miss things when you read a translation! So I learned a new word as well today :o)

Time to jump into the discussion at least as I don't manage to get my own post done ...

And for once I do not forget them: SPOILER
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Right, that's enough!

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

I think that is a good theory. At the same time, she doesn't say, "Ineluki must not be allowed any foothold south of Nakkiga," only "The Norns must not be allowed any foothold south of Nakkiga."

Maybe it helps to consider which footholds the Norns are trying to gain. They're at Naglimund, Thisterborg (I forgot the other places of "House building") ancient places of power. If they take over places of power they don't do it to simply hang around but to gain power to fight the Sithi, so it is quite obvious that the Sithi in turn should try to prevent that.

Another possibility is that in coming south the Norns are violating the pact of Sesuad'ra. As the Sithi abide by contracts qutie strictly that alone might be enough ....

I wonder what causes this friendship to form in the first place, aside from Aditu's obvious interest in Vorzheva's unborn child.

For me they have quite a few similar traits what often leads to friendship, does it not?

They both kinda wear their hears on their sleeves, never hesitating to speak their mind freely no matter the reaction. They are not only the only ones from their folk but treated as aliens in the camp, they don't speak Westerling as perfectly as the others, they're both fond of nature and like to be outside.

Apart from that - don't hit me guys! - maybe  Aditu likes to have some female company to recover from mooncalfs and other men. And who  else should she befriend with, honestly? Mistrusting Gutrun? Giggling Ulcla? Far to old Geloë? No Vorsheva is the only one around!

  [b]Do you believe Aditu is truly confused, or is she mocking again?

I'm not too sure what you are referring to Firsfron but if you mean Aditu's question whether the Holy tree invocation were meant to chase her away i think she is mocking. She very likely heard these things from Simon before and knows that they are not spells.

Sometime my own post will come!

*goes slacking meanwhile*

SPOILERNESS OF DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!
DOOM I SAY!
DO NOT READ THIS UNLESS YOU WISH TO BE STRUCK DOWN BY THE DOOMFUL GODS OF SPOILERISHNESS!!!!
(and because i don't know how many more characters i need) DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!

ylvs wrote:

For me they have quite a few similar traits what often leads to friendship, does it not?

They both kinda wear their hears on their sleeves, never hesitating to speak their mind freely no matter the reaction. They are not only the only ones from their folk but treated as aliens in the camp, they don't speak Westerling as perfectly as the others, they're both fond of nature and like to be outside.

Apart from that - don't hit me guys! - maybe Aditu likes to have some female company to recover from mooncalfs and other men. And who else should she befriend with, honestly? Mistrusting Gutrun? Giggling Ulcla? Far to old Geloë? No Vorsheva is the only one around!

this makes complete sense to me. especially that last bit. after a while most females tend to need female company, and for aditu, who isn't used to the blundering of these silly mortal creatures, i can see how she might need a bit of time to just get away and have a little girl-on-girl time, not having to talk about war and whatnot. not only is she young, but she's a young female. those tend to be rather whimsical most of the time i find.

ceywren the ghost wrote:

she's a young female. those tend to be rather whimsical most of the time i find.

Sorry to disappoint you but to me this does not
seem to get better with age ...

And I loooooooooooooooove whow youz make me laugh!!!

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elbarad wrote:

Miri doesn't seem too impressed by Aditu's looks either. I can't remember her exact words, but doesn't she more or less call her a 'brazen hussey' to Simon?

Yes, that's true. We'll come to that part in a few weeks: she says Aditu wouldn't be allowed to cross the threshold of a church. Presumably because of her clothing, rather than because she's a Sitha, obviously. Although, by this time, isn't Aditu wearing Vorzheva's clothing...?

[b]
This interested me (as well as irritating me as this is the sort of opinion my mum would have had) as I wondered whether this was
a) what Miri really thought or just what she'd heard other people say and hadn't really thought it through for herself,
b) was this just something she said to get a reaction from Simon so she could guage his feelings for Aditu
c) A catty response borne of either her jealousy of possible rivalry for Simon, or jealousy of Aditu's looks.

Ideas, people?

Can it be a little bit of all three?

By the time Miriamele arrives, it does appear Aditu is dressing more appropriately: this week's reread indicates Aditu has borrowed Vorzheva's clothes. So Miriamele is then just repeating what she's heard from others, rather than what she's seen herself.

Miriamele is intelligent. But here she is transparent. She does have some feelings for Simon, although she is not entirely aware of them.

Just my two cents.

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ceywren the ghost wrote:

i always took miri's response to aditu as a sort of unconscious jealousy thing. i think she is aware of simon's obsession with her on some level (even if she doesn't always want to admit it to herself) and she likes the attention. enter aditu and suddenly there's the possibility that any future mooning simon will be doing will be over this irritating sithi lady.

i had something else to say but i forget what it was.

I think that's part of it, but not the whole story.

ceywren the ghost wrote:

SPOILERNESS OF DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!
DOOM I SAY!
DO NOT READ THIS UNLESS YOU WISH TO BE STRUCK DOWN BY THE DOOMFUL GODS OF SPOILERISHNESS!!!!
(and because i don't know how many more characters i need) DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!

Active topics shows the first 200. You're safe after that.

[b] after a while most females tend to need female company, and for aditu, who isn't used to the blundering of these silly mortal creatures, i can see how she might need a bit of time to just get away and have a little girl-on-girl time,

I had to laugh, here. OK, please go on.

[b]not having to talk about war and whatnot. not only is she young, but she's a young female. those tend to be rather whimsical most of the time i find.

Well, she's young for one of her people. So her personality, I think, is an eclectic blend of whimsical girl and wise woman. She's really an interesting and complex character; in some ways, she's Miriamele's polar opposite (not that Miriamele isn't complex: far from it!).

In the first chapter of our selection this week, Aditu "snaps" at Simon. But where Miriamele later lashes out at Simon in heated anger, here Aditu only shows coolness. Aditu expresses a carefree attitude, exemplified by her balancing on parapets. At least on the outside, she expresses an air of calmness. Inside, well...

Miriamele is a web of conflicting and suppressed emotion which painfully boils to the surface at several occasions. On the inside, however, is a frightened girl who wants only to be carefree: she says it several times herself: "Let's run away!". And she does just that on several occasions.

In this series, Aditu plays second banana to Miriamele (who is clearly Female Lead). Yet there are still many interesting conclusions that can be made about their characters. Were they designed as polar opposites, or do I read too much into the text?

Finally, I want to note I don't believe we are ever shown a scene where Miriamele and Aditu ever directly speak to one another, aside from a very brief sentence (by Aditu)at the very end of the series. Why is that? Aside from manuscript and book-binding limitations, obviously. It's not like this volume was lacking size or something.

oh and also yes, for one of her people.

however, seeing as how she is one of her people, i felt fairly safe calling her young. i'm not saying that because she's young means she has to be stupid. i'm just saying that the way she'll react a lot of the time is how i (for example) would react. she grew up in a world where she was treated as a young female, as a result a lot of her actions will tend towards that attitude even though she is now suddenly finding herself in a slightly more mortal world.

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ylvs wrote:

And who else should she befriend with, honestly? Mistrusting Gutrun? Giggling Ulcla? Far to old Geloë? No Vorsheva is the only one around!

That was exactly my initial thought!  But I'll take it one step further.  King John is atributed to the spread of the Aedonite religion to the land, and is very anti-Sithi and prolly had no small hand in forming the superstitions against them.  Aside from Geloë, Binabik, and Tiamak, Vorzheva is the only one around who doesn't hold to the idea that she's a heathen.  Binabik and Tiamak are more interested in pouring over Morgenes' manuscript, and Geloë is not likely to help her understand humans.

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ceywren the ghost wrote:

oh and also yes, for one of her people.

however, seeing as how she is one of her people, i felt fairly safe calling her young. i'm not saying that because she's young means she has to be stupid. i'm just saying that the way she'll react a lot of the time is how i (for example) would react. she grew up in a world where she was treated as a young female, as a result a lot of her actions will tend towards that attitude even though she is now suddenly finding herself in a slightly more mortal world.

Yes, I totaly agree.

Josua too, certainly.  He's learned enough to not get stuck in that rut.  But he's also very busy with other things, and not likely to go strolling with Aditu.

I do have other comments.... apologies, my RL bookclub meeting is in a few hours and my head is full of that book.

cyan wrote:

Josua too, certainly.  He's learned enough to not get stuck in that rut.  But he's also very busy with other things, and not likely to go strolling with Aditu.

Well, not after the first time. I'm sure Vorzheva bawled him out for that.

[b]
I do have other comments.... apologies, my RL bookclub meeting is in a few hours and my head is full of that book.

What? You mean you're cheating on us, with another book?! ;)

Originally posted by Firsfron of Ronchester:[b]
What? You mean you're cheating on us, with another book?! ;)

It's true.  *sighs*  I'm leading a dual life....