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  •  » MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

#1 2017-07-13 20:14:59

ajl3
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Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

SPOILERS for all five books might be in this thread. Read at your own risk!

Since Witchwood Crown seems to at least partially be about those not learning from the past repeating it and things being passed on to a new generation, I thought it would be fun to point parallels between Last King of Osten Ard and Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. I'll start!

TWC:
King John waking up, TDC.
Utukku awakening, Nakkiga "coming alive" again with her awakening like the Hayholt does for him.

King John's death, TDC.
Isgrimnur dying of old age.

Feuding brothers, TDC.
Drusis and what's-his-name, the brothers in Nabban. One is good, one bad - and plans to betray the other.

Last edited by ajl3 (2017-07-14 01:46:42)

 

#2 2017-07-17 16:10:56

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
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Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS


These are good.

I'd add:

Josua/Vorzheva fights in MS&T
Simon/Miriamele fights in TLKOOA.

The revelation of a secret group, each member with a gold pendant, in MS&T
The revelation of a secret group with a silver pendant, in TLKOOA.

Simon illicitly climbs a tower, in DBC
Morgan illicitly climbs a tower, in TWC.

Aditu reveals a prophecy
Ommu reveals a prophecy


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#3 2017-07-18 11:54:11

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
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Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS

The spirit of Ineluki is resurrected through horrible magicks and a dark ceremony.
The spirit of Ommu is resurrected through horrible magicks and a dark ceremony.

Cadrach is driven to despair by just reading Du Svardenvyrd.
John Josua is apparently driven mad by reading A Treatise on the Aetheric Whispers.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#4 2017-07-28 09:58:58

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
Website

Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS

The butterflies at Likimeya's cave harken back to the butterflies at the (original) Yasira.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#5 2017-07-28 14:37:52

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

The fight between Unver and the big chief parallels the fight between Josua and another big chief in Stone of Farewell, down to Naidel being thrown to the fighter. Here, however, it is turned down.

 

#6 2017-07-29 13:12:46

xavie
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From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2006-01-22
Posts: 1566
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Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

Young, slightly stupid boy as POV character who gets lost in the woods.
A fight against a dragon in the end of book one.
A woman hides from the norns right under their noses.

Last edited by xavie (2017-07-29 13:35:29)

 

#7 2017-07-29 23:52:50

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
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Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

Good observations, guys!

(...Who is the woman who hides from the Norns right under their noses in MS&T?)

I thought of another:

A supernatural threat from the far north goes unheeded as human kingdoms squabble amongst themselves.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#8 2017-07-30 02:43:22

xavie
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From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2006-01-22
Posts: 1566
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Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

(...Who is the woman who hides from the Norns right under their noses in MS&T?)

Rachel the Dragon. She goes about it the same way as Tzoja: Collecting food, finding a hiding spot.

 

#9 2017-07-30 02:52:42

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

xavie wrote:

Young, slightly stupid boy as POV character who gets lost in the woods.
A fight against a dragon in the end of book one.
A woman hides from the norns right under their noses.

I like the meta-ness of since it's the sequel trilogy, there's TWO dragons and this one is way BIGGER.

 

#10 2017-07-30 03:34:25

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
Website

Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

xavie wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

(...Who is the woman who hides from the Norns right under their noses in MS&T?)

Rachel the Dragon. She goes about it the same way as Tzoja: Collecting food, finding a hiding spot.

Oh, duh! Of course! *slaps forehead*


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#11 2017-07-30 03:36:39

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
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Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

ajl3 wrote:

I like the meta-ness of since it's the sequel trilogy, there's TWO dragons and this one is way BIGGER.

Kinda reminds me of Star Wars episode 7, in a way... Just replace "bigger death star" with "bigger dragon". Not that I'm complaining, mind you... I love that scene.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#12 2017-07-31 02:47:21

Jeremy_Erman
Pilgrim
From: California
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 262

Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

But which dragon is Igjarjuk? How many dragons live on "Dragon's Home" anyway? Or should that be "Dragons' Home?

In the opening chapter of The Dragonbone Chair, a king talks about smiting a dragon to a jester and gives him advice. But that king is lying about his deed, at least by omission. In The Witchwood Crown the king talks to a minstrel and insists he didn't kill the dragon. But is that dragon found dead or killed by the end of the book? Has Simon's truthfullness become a lie in the present day, or meaningless? The 'dragon is dead' whether Simon killed it or not?

I'm kind of bothered by the idea of Igjarjuk being dead. She was presented as a being far older and more powerful than any of the people who attacked her in The Dragonbone Chair. Simon's not-killing of her felt meaningful.

 

#13 2017-07-31 06:49:41

xavie
Pilgrim
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2006-01-22
Posts: 1566
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Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

Jeremy_Erman wrote:

In the opening chapter of The Dragonbone Chair, a king talks about smiting a dragon to a jester and gives him advice. But that king is lying about his deed, at least by omission. In The Witchwood Crown the king talks to a minstrel and insists he didn't kill the dragon. But is that dragon found dead or killed by the end of the book? Has Simon's truthfullness become a lie in the present day, or meaningless? The 'dragon is dead' whether Simon killed it or not?

That's a very nice find, I think.

 

#14 2017-07-31 23:45:09

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
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Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

Jeremy_Erman wrote:

But which dragon is Igjarjuk? How many dragons live on "Dragon's Home" anyway? Or should that be "Dragons' Home?

It seems like enough for a breeding population. Unless, like some lizards, they don't always need to mate, and can reproduce without sex.

In the opening chapter of The Dragonbone Chair, a king talks about smiting a dragon to a jester and gives him advice. But that king is lying about his deed, at least by omission. In The Witchwood Crown the king talks to a minstrel and insists he didn't kill the dragon. But is that dragon found dead or killed by the end of the book? Has Simon's truthfullness become a lie in the present day, or meaningless? The 'dragon is dead' whether Simon killed it or not?

I'm kind of bothered by the idea of Igjarjuk being dead. She was presented as a being far older and more powerful than any of the people who attacked her in The Dragonbone Chair. Simon's not-killing of her felt meaningful.

I understand what you're saying, but I just feel the opposite way. I was glad to finally know Simon did kill the dragon. Simon earned his kingdom, unlike John the Pre(tender)sbyter.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#15 2017-08-23 04:45:52

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

We'll have to see how this goes in the next book, but Aditu's pregnancy/birth of the twins. I could see her giving birth at a pivotal moment in Book 3. I could even see Tad being cute and having another prophecy spoken there - or, surprise, she has twins.

 

#16 2017-08-23 07:18:05

Outsider
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From: North Carolina
Registered: 2008-04-29
Posts: 177
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Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

ajl3 wrote:

We'll have to see how this goes in the next book, but Aditu's pregnancy/birth of the twins. I could see her giving birth at a pivotal moment in Book 3. I could even see Tad being cute and having another prophecy spoken there - or, surprise, she has twins.

Aditu having twins was my first thought too. I don't think there's ever been any mention of immortal twins.


"A witty saying proves nothing." -- Voltaire
"Bring back meat, we are not Zida'ya, to live on flowers and bee's milk." -- Kemme

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#17 2017-08-23 13:52:39

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
Website

Re: MST parallels in Witchwood Crown and Heart of What Was Lost

Outsider wrote:

ajl3 wrote:

We'll have to see how this goes in the next book, but Aditu's pregnancy/birth of the twins. I could see her giving birth at a pivotal moment in Book 3. I could even see Tad being cute and having another prophecy spoken there - or, surprise, she has twins.

Aditu having twins was my first thought too. I don't think there's ever been any mention of immortal twins.

Aditu even marvels at the idea of twins. I don't think she'll have twins, because it's either impossible, or extremely rare among the Gardenborn... or at least the Keida'ya.

(Then again, if my bukken-are-actually-Tinukeda'ya theory is correct, maybe twins aren't so uncommon among other Gardenborn, since there seem to be literally swarms of them.)


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 
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