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#51 2017-08-03 21:16:03

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

ajl3 wrote:

I was honestly wondering what Saomeji's "deal" is: he's definitely far nicer (and practical) than Makho or Kemme (he's the one that wants to give Nezeru the healing ointment, calms Makho down over Jarnwulf, etc. etc.) but he is a singer. So will he be a bad guy, good guy, or true neutral?

He seems fair... so he's probably foul.

Jijibo: faking it or not? He reminds me of the Autarch's second in command (forget the name) from Shadowmarch, who is faking being mentally handicap as well as physically handicapped to avoid being murdered.

Now that's an interesting theory! It's been so long since I read Shadowmarch that I don't remember that character at all (I last read Shadowmarch when the final volume came out in 2010), but that's a clever theory. If Utuk'ku has eliminated her rivals, she wouldn't see Jijibo as a threat. But Akhenabi can apparently read people's thoughts, though...


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#52 2017-08-03 23:01:56

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 361

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

He seems fair... so he's probably foul.

I think what puts a wrinkle in that is that Nezeru doesn't trust him and finds him creepy, so if he turned out to be so it would just be "oh, well dad was right." So I'm leaning more towards "neutral." Maybe he's to show that not all of the Order are horrible fanatics?

Oh! That's right, we didn't mention that Saomeji uses the power of "laying hands" in the escape from the Island of Bones, which is more proof that Usires Aedon may have been halfbreed at the least and not a man (or Son of God).

Now that's an interesting theory! It's been so long since I read Shadowmarch that I don't remember that character at all (I last read Shadowmarch when the final volume came out in 2010), but that's a clever theory. If Utuk'ku has eliminated her rivals, she wouldn't see Jijibo as a threat. But Akhenabi can apparently read people's thoughts, though...

I'd assume it's possible to defend against that, or the other council members would never be able to do anything, politics-wise. Alternatively: maybe Jijibo came into communication with the "Darkness," and has been whispered to? Like a Lovecraft thing, where you go half-mad. It would explain why he's constantly muttering as if in conversation and doesn't seem "present."

 

#53 2017-08-04 16:52:19

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

ajl3 wrote:

I think what puts a wrinkle in that is that Nezeru doesn't trust him and finds him creepy, so if he turned out to be so it would just be "oh, well dad was right." So I'm leaning more towards "neutral." Maybe he's to show that not all of the Order are horrible fanatics?

Could be! He definitely seems non-horrible, despite being of the Order of Singers.

Oh! That's right, we didn't mention that Saomeji uses the power of "laying hands" in the escape from the Island of Bones, which is more proof that Usires Aedon may have been halfbreed at the least and not a man (or Son of God).

Well, at least we're examining Sulis' crackpot theory, instead of one of our own! ;) Progress!

If Usires were a Sitha, wouldn't the Book of Aedon have mentioned his golden eyes, or something like that? And why does he have a Nabbanai name? Why, then, does Usires call himself the Son of God? Not the multiple gods of the Zida'ya, but a single god? There are just too many things that don't fit together.

I'd assume it's possible to defend against that, or the other council members would never be able to do anything, politics-wise. Alternatively: maybe Jijibo came into communication with the "Darkness," and has been whispered to? Like a Lovecraft thing, where you go half-mad. It would explain why he's constantly muttering as if in conversation and doesn't seem "present."

This I find possible, even likely.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#54 2017-08-07 05:28:17

Merenwen
Pilgrim
From: Germany
Registered: 2014-05-12
Posts: 2240

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Ad1tu wrote:

Hmm, minor characters? How minor is minor? I liked Aelin, does he count? Also, the dragon. I like envisioning the disdain on Tzoja's guards in her first appearance, when they have to follow her around and then carry her purchases back into Nakkiga. Oh, and the corpse-giant!

My vote goes to Khimabu's puking ermine and Utuk'ku's angry white mantis. Vaqana looks rather pale in comparison to those awesome pets. :P

 

#55 2017-08-07 05:34:13

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Merenwen wrote:

Ad1tu wrote:

Hmm, minor characters? How minor is minor? I liked Aelin, does he count? Also, the dragon. I like envisioning the disdain on Tzoja's guards in her first appearance, when they have to follow her around and then carry her purchases back into Nakkiga. Oh, and the corpse-giant!

My vote goes to Khimabu's puking ermine and Utuk'ku's angry white mantis. Vaqana looks rather pale in comparison to those awesome pets. :P

That puking ermine!

...Hey, a thought: what does that ermine say about Norn abilities? Could they be using animals to spy on the Sithi? Is an animal the spy among the Sithi? Say, Yejaaro's pet stoat, who he tells everything to?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#56 2017-08-07 14:25:28

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 361

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Merenwen wrote:

Ad1tu wrote:

Hmm, minor characters? How minor is minor? I liked Aelin, does he count? Also, the dragon. I like envisioning the disdain on Tzoja's guards in her first appearance, when they have to follow her around and then carry her purchases back into Nakkiga. Oh, and the corpse-giant!

My vote goes to Khimabu's puking ermine and Utuk'ku's angry white mantis. Vaqana looks rather pale in comparison to those awesome pets. :P

That puking ermine!

...Hey, a thought: what does that ermine say about Norn abilities? Could they be using animals to spy on the Sithi? Is an animal the spy among the Sithi? Say, Yejaaro's pet stoat, who he tells everything to?

I actually thought this suggested that Khimabu might not only have "connections" to the Order of the Singer, as she states, but might in fact have some talent or be one herself? Certainly Viyeki and Nezeru, the later of which is around animals a lot, don't seem to consider anything about Familiars. Nor do the "normal" Sithi we've seen.

The implication might be that she's actually there to spy on Viyeki for the Order; positions in other houses could be filled in the same way.

 

#57 2017-08-07 16:12:18

Ad1tu
Pilgrim
From: Buffysadharc
Registered: 2004-02-22
Posts: 6336

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Merenwen wrote:

Ad1tu wrote:

Hmm, minor characters? How minor is minor? I liked Aelin, does he count? Also, the dragon. I like envisioning the disdain on Tzoja's guards in her first appearance, when they have to follow her around and then carry her purchases back into Nakkiga. Oh, and the corpse-giant!

My vote goes to Khimabu's puking ermine and Utuk'ku's angry white mantis. Vaqana looks rather pale in comparison to those awesome pets. :P

Ooo yeah! Those are good ones.


If you should do what makes you happy, and no one can tell you what makes you happy, then that means no one can tell you what to do!

Tamishu's Ramblings

 

#58 2017-08-07 20:35:11

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

ajl3 wrote:

I actually thought this suggested that Khimabu might not only have "connections" to the Order of the Singer, as she states, but might in fact have some talent or be one herself? Certainly Viyeki and Nezeru, the later of which is around animals a lot, don't seem to consider anything about Familiars. Nor do the "normal" Sithi we've seen.

No, the only possible Familiars I can think of are the ghants.

...Although... this could resurrect an old theory JustCharlotte had, regarding Grimalkin. She always felt there was more to that cat than meets the eye. Khimabu's Hurking Ermine might lend itself to that theory.

The implication might be that she's actually there to spy on Viyeki for the Order; positions in other houses could be filled in the same way.

Now that is interesting! Could that be why Ommu seems to know so much about Viyeki?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#59 2017-08-14 02:09:10

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 361

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

ajl3 wrote:

I actually thought this suggested that Khimabu might not only have "connections" to the Order of the Singer, as she states, but might in fact have some talent or be one herself? Certainly Viyeki and Nezeru, the later of which is around animals a lot, don't seem to consider anything about Familiars. Nor do the "normal" Sithi we've seen.

No, the only possible Familiars I can think of are the ghants.

...Although... this could resurrect an old theory JustCharlotte had, regarding Grimalkin. She always felt there was more to that cat than meets the eye. Khimabu's Hurking Ermine might lend itself to that theory.

The implication might be that she's actually there to spy on Viyeki for the Order; positions in other houses could be filled in the same way.

Now that is interesting! Could that be why Ommu seems to know so much about Viyeki?

I don't think Ommu would need the spying to know much about Viyeki (she says she's seen him and many other things from being beyond death), but I think it's worth noting how HOWWL-Khimabu is portrayed as an almost ditzy, if well-meaning, gossip while TWC-Khimabu is a schemer. She's probably been hiding who she really is and now that Viyeki is gone doesn't see the need to. I believe in HOWWL, Viyeki even mentions her being considered from a better family and him being surprised he was matched with her, which leads me to believe that Akhenabi or someone similar has been having families infiltrated to keep an eye on them.

 

#60 2017-08-14 04:10:07

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

...Although... this could resurrect an old theory JustCharlotte had, regarding Grimalkin. She always felt there was more to that cat than meets the eye. Khimabu's Hurking Ermine might lend itself to that theory.

Me, too. I'm convinced this cat was special ever since I read the series for the first time.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#61 2017-08-16 20:07:26

Tad
Hierarch
From: California
Registered: 2001-05-30
Posts: 7612
Website

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Wait until you -properly- meet Turia Ingadaris.


"I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours."

-- Dylan

 

#62 2017-08-16 20:58:20

Outsider
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From: North Carolina
Registered: 2008-04-29
Posts: 177
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Re: TWC - favourite new characters

:O


"A witty saying proves nothing." -- Voltaire
"Bring back meat, we are not Zida'ya, to live on flowers and bee's milk." -- Kemme

Follow me on Twitter

 

#63 2017-08-19 20:05:34

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 361

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Tad wrote:

Wait until you -properly- meet Turia Ingadaris.

I missed this until today, but now I'll wonder about this for the next year or two until we get Empire of Grass.

 

#64 2017-08-19 21:50:55

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

ajl3 wrote:

Tad wrote:

Wait until you -properly- meet Turia Ingadaris.

I missed this until today, but now I'll wonder about this for the next year or two until we get Empire of Grass.

I know, right?

The good news is that there's never been a gap of more than 2.5 years between Osten Ard novels, at least when Tad's actively writing them.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#65 2017-08-23 20:40:25

Miria3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2014-04-05
Posts: 8

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Nezeru, Jarnulf, and Viyecki

 

#66 2017-08-23 21:23:31

Ad1tu
Pilgrim
From: Buffysadharc
Registered: 2004-02-22
Posts: 6336

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

*cheers* Another vote for Viyeki!

Man, I'm gonna be really disappointed when he brings about the ruin of Osten Ard...

Last edited by Ad1tu (2017-08-23 21:24:10)


If you should do what makes you happy, and no one can tell you what makes you happy, then that means no one can tell you what to do!

Tamishu's Ramblings

 

#67 2017-08-23 22:17:31

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Miria3 wrote:

Nezeru, Jarnulf, and Viyecki

Welcome back, Miria!


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#68 2017-08-23 22:19:07

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Ad1tu wrote:

*cheers* Another vote for Viyeki!

Man, I'm gonna be really disappointed when he brings about the ruin of Osten Ard...

Do you think he will, Ad1tu? If so, how?

*prepares throwing wheel for crackpottery*


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#69 2017-08-24 06:22:07

Ad1tu
Pilgrim
From: Buffysadharc
Registered: 2004-02-22
Posts: 6336

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

It's nothing super tangible, just this feeling. And it wouldn't be directly his fault, but something he does causes something else to happen, or not happen... It feels like he's being set up for something really big and important, especially with that prophecy from Ommu. " To save what you love, you will be forced to kill that which you love even more." So what does he love? His people? Utuk'ku? Yaarike? Nezeru? Khimabu? Tzoja? (It's also interesting, I just noticed it's "WHAT you love", not WHO (or WHOM?), and "that which you love", again instead of whom. Maybe nothing, maybe something... I've definitely been thinking it's people.) It feels like he's being set up to be a tragic hero, great personal sacrifice but for the greater good... And I'm just afraid he's going to all of a sudden say, "Nope, I'm a selfish jerk" and give up maybe Nezeru (who takes Cold Root from Makho's cold, dead hands and is going to go stab Akhenabi or Utuk'ku or Ommu and thus save Osten Ard from Unbeing (and maybe she does it anyway, but Viyeki was still willing to sacrifice his daughter)) to save Tzoja.

Viyeki is the first Norn we meet who questions the path Norn society is on. Yaarike is of an older generation (plus, he might be dead) and Tad usually has the younger generation as the "do-ers" or the saviors or whatever you want to call it. So here is this shining beacon of hope, that maybe Norns AREN'T all total jerks. And maybe it'll just get snatched away...


If you should do what makes you happy, and no one can tell you what makes you happy, then that means no one can tell you what to do!

Tamishu's Ramblings

 

#70 2017-08-25 22:17:40

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 361

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Speaking of Viyeki, I noticed a humorous character detail that's consistent between HOWWL and TWC: he describes the magnetic attraction Suno'ku has as being like a flame or fire and in TWC he describes Tzoja as a flame that could burn him up. So Tad gave the character a "type," lol.

Or maybe it's just for foreshadowing for him dumping her for Unver, who burns even more.

 

#71 2017-08-27 09:18:45

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

ajl3 wrote:

Speaking of Viyeki, I noticed a humorous character detail that's consistent between HOWWL and TWC: he describes the magnetic attraction Suno'ku has as being like a flame or fire and in TWC he describes Tzoja as a flame that could burn him up. So Tad gave the character a "type," lol.

Or maybe it's just for foreshadowing for him dumping her for Unver, who burns even more.

Hahahaaaa!

So... maybe the "thing he loves most" is fire?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#72 2017-09-05 06:08:02

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 361

Re: TWC - favourite new characters

Ad1tu wrote:

It's nothing super tangible, just this feeling. And it wouldn't be directly his fault, but something he does causes something else to happen, or not happen... It feels like he's being set up for something really big and important, especially with that prophecy from Ommu. " To save what you love, you will be forced to kill that which you love even more." So what does he love? His people? Utuk'ku? Yaarike? Nezeru? Khimabu? Tzoja? (It's also interesting, I just noticed it's "WHAT you love", not WHO (or WHOM?), and "that which you love", again instead of whom. Maybe nothing, maybe something... I've definitely been thinking it's people.) It feels like he's being set up to be a tragic hero, great personal sacrifice but for the greater good... And I'm just afraid he's going to all of a sudden say, "Nope, I'm a selfish jerk" and give up maybe Nezeru (who takes Cold Root from Makho's cold, dead hands and is going to go stab Akhenabi or Utuk'ku or Ommu and thus save Osten Ard from Unbeing (and maybe she does it anyway, but Viyeki was still willing to sacrifice his daughter)) to save Tzoja.

Viyeki is the first Norn we meet who questions the path Norn society is on. Yaarike is of an older generation (plus, he might be dead) and Tad usually has the younger generation as the "do-ers" or the saviors or whatever you want to call it. So here is this shining beacon of hope, that maybe Norns AREN'T all total jerks. And maybe it'll just get snatched away...

I hope not! Really pulling for a happy everyone hugs ending for that family. I do hope that Nezeru pries the sword from Makho's dead hands, though.

The bit about the prophecy indicating a thing and not a person is something I hadn't noticed, but I had considered it being that anyway. I'd argue that Viyeki immediately jumping to (however regretfully) needing to kill Tzoja or Nezeru shows they are not what he loves the most and there's only a few suspects for that after them: Utuk'ku, his people, or the Lost Garden. I think it could definitely not be a literal killing but destroying lies, changing their culture, etc., or if part of the Evil Plan involves opening a portal to the Garden "killing" their dream of return by shutting it.

Last edited by ajl3 (2017-09-05 06:09:04)

 

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