Tad Williams' Message Board

Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- 'God damn it, you've got to be kind.'
-    Kurt Vonnegut, 1922-2007

Welcome to the message board for tadwilliams.com. All comments are welcome, whether kudos or brickbats. However, please bear in mind that Tad would like this to be a friendly, civil message board, at least in the relations between users. We reserve the right to remove postings, or even ban postings, from anyone who crosses the boundary of reasonable taste. Basically, you can argue vigorously with someone, but watch your language, okay? We have a lot of young readers as well as grown-ups, so please show them some respect.

But the main requirement here is: have fun.


You are not logged in.

  • Index
  •  » Osten Ard
  •  » FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

#51 2017-06-28 08:06:47

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

ylvs wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

As I said in the place that does not exist my gut tells me Josua is dead. But we'll see about that.

So, who killed him, do you think? And why?

I don't think the timeline adds up for Josua to be Jarnulf's father. Didn't he get lost something like 10 years after the fall of GAT? Jarnulf could not be older then 23 then for Josua to be his dad. Unless he had a family aside for some years which is so much out of character for Josua that I cannot imagine it.
Maybe Jarnauga is just random guy with unrelated heritage. I would like that.

The timeline does seem to be a little messy. And it doesn't seem likely that Josua would have started a family on the side. However, there is the issue with Lady Fuira (sp?)... What was that about?

Also: concerning Nezeru: I think her being Camaris descendant is far more important than Josua's - think fiercest warrior of his generation etc. I also see much more of Vorzehva's fierceness in her than Josua's broodiness ...

Good point about Nezeru's lineage back to Camaris.

And to nit another pick: it's Tzoja not Tsoja.

*hangs head in shame*


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#52 2017-06-28 08:07:49

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Magpie wrote:

Jarnauga stayed behind at Naglimund to guard the door the others escaped through, didn't he? He could have been captured instead of killed.
(Theoretically. Given Jarnauga's age, I'm leaning more towards grandson or some other kind of relative.)

Excellent points, Magpie!


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#53 2017-06-28 08:16:32

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

No, I thought Jarnauga might have a family since before MST. Possibly his child was captured by the Norns, either in the past or during MST+aftermath, but this individual knew their father was Jarnauga, a scrollbearer and had learned something from him. Then they got a child with a Norn -> Jarnulf, taught him about the scrollbearing business.

It is not impossible that Jarnauga had a child which then might have become the mother or father of Jarnulf. Ragna might be Jarnauga's daughter. I buy that. Secret as all the Scrollbearer business is I do not believe that it was dinnertalk chez Jarnauga and thus handed down. And Jarnulf is no halfbreed but a full human. If he was a halfbreed he would not have grown up in the slave pits, right?


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#54 2017-06-28 08:17:53

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Here's another crackpot theory:

Hugh's witch-bride and Lady Fuira (sp?) are one and the same.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#55 2017-06-28 08:18:44

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Gotta go to life business again. Do not forget to try to ask some of these questions on reddit tonight!


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#56 2017-06-28 08:37:37

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS

ylvs wrote:

When Pryrates was kicked out of the League, do you think he obediently gave back his pendant?

Yes, and paid his month's dues.

Firs wrote:

No idea. But it's possible that he is Jarnulf's father. But then why make a pendant that is the wrong metal? He obviously knows what the Scrollbearer pendant should look like, as a Scrollbearer himself.

I rule out Josua mainly because of:
a) the inscription
b) details about Derra and the family home life make it sound like they were at least 10-13 when he disappeared, the war happened, and the family split. Can we pin down when the war with the Thirthings happened between books? That might help.

Firs wrote:

So you think Hugh's men are behind the Tanahaya assassination attempt?

I'll save this one for the bigger post, which in turn I will save for when more people have had time to read the book, but it's a strong probability. For this, it's mostly a matter of who has motive to do the attacks, which for me boil down to a) King Hugh, who is working with Norns b) some Erkynlanders who are corrupt and working behind Simon's back. I can't think of any other good candidates at the moment.

Firs wrote:

If Josua is Jarnulf's father, then Nezeru is Jarnulf's niece. Which might limit romance between Nezeru/Jarnulf.

Now we know what Tad meant about building off of George's work!

Kenan wrote:

I never thought "by his hand" actually meant by sword. It would be more interesting if there's some other action that brings about these risings (rises?) and falls. I imagine a single (chain of) event(s) that brings about this cataclysm.

This is something I should have considered. Unver could attack Nabban, which somehow provides an opening for Hugh to attack the Hayholt, etc. He could also be the "last king" that Tad said was a spoiler that we would only find out in the third book (or fourth.) Getting around the "no throne" line of the prophecy might be tricky, but it could involve him having a Mongol style nomad army.

Kenan wrote:

I think Jarnulf's name's similarity to Jarnauga is too strong to ignore. They have a similar ancestry, are relatives, or have been given their names from the same place/people.

I agree! If not directly related, someone knew/knew of Jarnauga and used part of the name in honor. Though I believe Jarnulf's mother states the "Jarn" part as being some sort of family name, passed on.

Another clue involving Jarnulf's heritage that could be important: Jarnulf thinks of the Queen as a "traitorous bitch" and seems to imply she committed some sort of treachery against his father (which was what originally made me think of Jegger before the 28 years old age was revealed.)

 

#57 2017-06-28 09:46:36

Pretzalz
Pilgrim
From: USA
Registered: 2001-06-02
Posts: 2256

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS WHOLE BOOK

As for Pasevalles, I kept going back and forth on what his agenda was throughout the book. When he paid Porto to look after Morgan, that went well, I thought he might have his own methods, but he ultimately had the best interests of the throne/Erkynland at heart. Then he killed Morgan's mom. Now I'm thinking he might have to be the prime suspect to have killed John Joshua[he was clearly poisoned or do people think it was really natural causes?], and I'm not sure what he is up to.


Jane: Ohh, you are trying to deal with your loneliness by surrounding yourself with friends, hmm, how's that going to work?

 

#58 2017-06-28 10:17:02

PeterJW
Pilgrim
Registered: 2008-01-19
Posts: 613

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

I bought the book yesterday and I have only read the foreword and the first two chapters.  However, I have noticed some discrepancies in regards to John Josua and Morgan.
(Spoiler Alert)

To point them out let us look at some facts:

Fact 1.  The book begins on Marris 9 in the year 1201 A.F.

Fact 2: The original trilogy ended in the year 1167 A.F.

Fact 3: John Josua died of a fever in the year 1194 A.F.

Fact 4:  Morgan is seventeen years old on Marris 9, 1201 A.F.  This means that he was born prior to Marris 9,  1184 A.F. or sometime in the second half of the year 1183 A.F.

Also, to my knowledge, Miriamele was not pregnant at the ending of the story in 1167 A.F.  This means that she had John Josua likely sometime in 1168 A.F. or 1169 A.F.

This also means (Spoiler Alert) that John Josua was nearly five in Simon's flashback dream, sometime in the year 1173 A.F. or 1174 A.F.

Since this is so, this means that John Josua became a father at either the age of 15 in 1183 A.F. or at the age of 15 in 1184 A.F. or quite possibly at age 14 depending on what time of the year his birth took place in either 1168 A.F. or 1169 A.F.

So, in short, this is the discrepancy:  Did John Josua become a father when, he was, at the most, 15 years old?  At the most, he would have lived only to the ages of either 26 or 25, so he became a father at a very young age if my calculations and speculations are correct.

 

#59 2017-06-28 10:35:34

Pretzalz
Pilgrim
From: USA
Registered: 2001-06-02
Posts: 2256

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

PeterJW wrote:

I bought the book yesterday and I have only read the foreword and the first two chapters.  However, I have noticed some discrepancies in regards to John Josua and Morgan.
(Spoiler Alert)

To point them out let us look at some facts:

Fact 1.  The book begins on Marris 9 in the year 1201 A.F.

Fact 2: The original trilogy ended in the year 1167 A.F.

Fact 3: John Josua died of a fever in the year 1194 A.F.

Fact 4:  Morgan is seventeen years old on Marris 9, 1201 A.F.  This means that he was born prior to Marris 9,  1184 A.F. or sometime in the second half of the year 1183 A.F.

Also, to my knowledge, Miriamele was not pregnant at the ending of the story in 1167 A.F.  This means that she had John Josua likely sometime in 1168 A.F. or 1169 A.F.

This also means (Spoiler Alert) that John Josua was nearly five in Simon's flashback dream, sometime in the year 1173 A.F. or 1174 A.F.

Since this is so, this means that John Josua became a father at either the age of 15 in 1183 A.F. or at the age of 15 in 1184 A.F. or quite possibly at age 14 depending on what time of the year his birth took place in either 1168 A.F. or 1169 A.F.

So, in short, this is the discrepancy:  Did John Josua become a father when, he was, at the most, 15 years old?  At the most, he would have lived only to the ages of either 26 or 25, so he became a father at a very young age if my calculations and speculations are correct.

Yeh, this bothered me too. Was even worse when I thought it was 30 years instead of 34. There is also no implication that it was a shotgun wedding so he would have been married at least 9 months earlier. Did he elope without Simon/Miri's permission? Seems a stretch, but less of a stretch than them giving their permission given how they treat Morgan at 17. Of course their treatment of Morgan could be a reaction from what happened with JJ.


Jane: Ohh, you are trying to deal with your loneliness by surrounding yourself with friends, hmm, how's that going to work?

 

#60 2017-06-28 11:16:38

Magpie
Mantis
From: miraculously thistle-free town
Registered: 2006-03-27
Posts: 32649
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

I really need to read the book again, but I want to wait for the "real" one before I do that, not the ARC, and I still haven't heard anything about that.


Basically, I'm Prince Josua in jeans and sneakers, or a different flavor of Renie Sulaweyo.
- Tad

Master of Gardening, Mistress of Kingdom Plantae, Defender of the Seedlings, Guardian of Root and Bough
Scrollbearer and offerer of some very useful opinions

 

#61 2017-06-28 12:15:08

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8752
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Magpie wrote:

I really need to read the book again, but I want to wait for the "real" one before I do that, not the ARC, and I still haven't heard anything about that.

Same here, Magpie... want to read the "real" copy now. But it may take me some time to fit it in my reading schedule.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#62 2017-06-28 12:23:38

PeterJW
Pilgrim
Registered: 2008-01-19
Posts: 613

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

In answer to your question Pretzalz,  I would say that it was an all above board, mutually agreed and arranged "legal" wedding. (For lack of a better term.)  After all, the objective of such an arrangement is to produce a legitimate heir to the High Throne of Osten Ard, so it would not have been an elopement.  I would also speculate that Princess Idela must be the exact same age as John Josua.  If for no other reason, so as to avoid medical complications in regards to her pregnancy.

 

#63 2017-06-28 13:21:11

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

PeterJW wrote:

I bought the book yesterday and I have only read the foreword and the first two chapters.  However, I have noticed some discrepancies in regards to John Josua and Morgan.
(Spoiler Alert)

To point them out let us look at some facts:

Fact 1.  The book begins on Marris 9 in the year 1201 A.F.

Fact 2: The original trilogy ended in the year 1167 A.F.

Fact 3: John Josua died of a fever in the year 1194 A.F.

Fact 4:  Morgan is seventeen years old on Marris 9, 1201 A.F.  This means that he was born prior to Marris 9,  1184 A.F. or sometime in the second half of the year 1183 A.F.

Also, to my knowledge, Miriamele was not pregnant at the ending of the story in 1167 A.F.  This means that she had John Josua likely sometime in 1168 A.F. or 1169 A.F.

This also means (Spoiler Alert) that John Josua was nearly five in Simon's flashback dream, sometime in the year 1173 A.F. or 1174 A.F.

Since this is so, this means that John Josua became a father at either the age of 15 in 1183 A.F. or at the age of 15 in 1184 A.F. or quite possibly at age 14 depending on what time of the year his birth took place in either 1168 A.F. or 1169 A.F.

So, in short, this is the discrepancy:  Did John Josua become a father when, he was, at the most, 15 years old?  At the most, he would have lived only to the ages of either 26 or 25, so he became a father at a very young age if my calculations and speculations are correct.

The story proper ends in 1166 AF. Miriamele could have been pregnant in the Afterword, in Spring 1167. 34 years pass between then and 1201 AF. Since Morgan is 17 in March 1201 AF, it seems as though John Josua could also have been around 17 when Morgan was born.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#64 2017-06-28 13:24:38

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Pretzalz wrote:

WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS WHOLE BOOKSPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS WHOLE BOOKSPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS WHOLE BOOK

As for Pasevalles, I kept going back and forth on what his agenda was throughout the book. When he paid Porto to look after Morgan, that went well, I thought he might have his own methods, but he ultimately had the best interests of the throne/Erkynland at heart. Then he killed Morgan's mom. Now I'm thinking he might have to be the prime suspect to have killed John Joshua[he was clearly poisoned or do people think it was really natural causes?], and I'm not sure what he is up to.

I was shocked. Pasevalles seemed so nice. Then... BAM! Literally.

Like you, I believe Pasevalles may have been involved in more murders. Maybe John Josua, maybe others. Possibly also Tanahaya.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#65 2017-06-28 13:31:30

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

ajl3 wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS

Firs wrote:

If Josua is Jarnulf's father, then Nezeru is Jarnulf's niece. Which might limit romance between Nezeru/Jarnulf.

Now we know what Tad meant about building off of George's work!

Bwahahaha!

ajl3 wrote:

This is something I should have considered. Unver could attack Nabban, which somehow provides an opening for Hugh to attack the Hayholt, etc. He could also be the "last king" that Tad said was a spoiler that we would only find out in the third book (or fourth.) Getting around the "no throne" line of the prophecy might be tricky, but it could involve him having a Mongol style nomad army.

But didn't Tad say the "last king" was someone we already knew? And we didn't know Unver prior to this book.

Another clue involving Jarnulf's heritage that could be important: Jarnulf thinks of the Queen as a "traitorous bitch" and seems to imply she committed some sort of treachery against his father (which was what originally made me think of Jegger before the 28 years old age was revealed.)

The 28 seasons is a stumbling block... but is it possible that Norn season are longer than human years? Just throwing that out there.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#66 2017-06-28 14:04:39

PeterJW
Pilgrim
Registered: 2008-01-19
Posts: 613

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

I still do not really know that Firsfron.  Yes, it is true the actual Storm King War ended in 1166 A.F.  However, the actual trilogy was formally concluded in the Afterword  which was set in 1167 A. F.  So, in my opinion, the Afterword is the official conclusion of the trilogy. Also, Simon did not mention to Count Eolair that Miriamele was indeed pregnant at the time in 1167 A.F.  If she had been, I cannot see Simon not informing Count Eolair of something which would have been of  vital importance to the future of Osten Ard.

Though, I do concede Miriamele may have become pregnant sometime in 1167 A.F after the Afterword.  If that is so, John Josua still would not have been born until 1168 A.F. at the earliest.

 

#67 2017-06-28 14:18:44

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8752
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Okay, now tell me this: What are Hakatri's bones and the blood of a dragon for? Where was "Yis-gimli's" body? What are Hugh and his witch bride up to? And who shot JR... I mean, Tanahaya?

Well apparently there was dragon bone in Elias drink that Pryrates kept feeding him (Tad in current AMA), so maybe it's used for all kinds of magical stuff, or specifically for breaching the veil related sorcery.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#68 2017-06-28 14:25:43

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Okay, now tell me this: What are Hakatri's bones and the blood of a dragon for? Where was "Yis-gimli's" body? What are Hugh and his witch bride up to? And who shot JR... I mean, Tanahaya?

Well apparently there was dragon bone in Elias drink that Pryrates kept feeding him (Tad in current AMA), so maybe it's used for all kinds of magical stuff, or specifically for breaching the veil related sorcery.

Yes! I just saw this, too.

But it's Hakatri's bones and the blood of a dragon, not the bones of a dragon and the blood of Hakatri.

Okay, okay... marrow of a dragon might substitute for blood.. but why Hakatri's bones?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#69 2017-06-28 14:51:48

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

PeterJW wrote:

I still do not really know that Firsfron.  Yes, it is true the actual Storm King War ended in 1166 A.F.  However, the actual trilogy was formally concluded in the Afterword  which was set in 1167 A. F.  So, in my opinion, the Afterword is the official conclusion of the trilogy. Also, Simon did not mention to Count Eolair that Miriamele was indeed pregnant at the time in 1167 A.F.

Well, they had just met in the hallway. It wasn't appropriate to announce it right there. "Oh, by the way, I just knocked up the queen" isn't an appropriate greeting, right? ;)

No, instead he invited Eolair in, to meet the other friends (some of whom Eolair hadn't yet met), and have drinks in the parlour, where no doubt Miriamele's situation could maybe be mentioned.

Sure, it's a retcon, but it seems like a plausible one, IMO.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#70 2017-06-28 16:36:11

PeterJW
Pilgrim
Registered: 2008-01-19
Posts: 613

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

I agree that Simon would not have used such blunt terminology to Eolair to announce the happy event.  However, when Eolair arrived the reception was already in progress.  If indeed Miriamele was pregnant, Simon could have already made a public announcement to that effect before Eolair showed up.  Then Simon could have said something, in the hallway, such as "I wish to tell you that I just announced to our assembled guests that the Queen is with child and that I am going to be a father Eolair." to Eolair.

However, he did not say that for the simple fact that Miriamele was not pregnant at that time.  Though, as we know, she became so afterwards.

 

#71 2017-06-28 16:43:02

Pretzalz
Pilgrim
From: USA
Registered: 2001-06-02
Posts: 2256

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

Magpie wrote:

I really need to read the book again, but I want to wait for the "real" one before I do that, not the ARC, and I still haven't heard anything about that.

Same here, Magpie... want to read the "real" copy now. But it may take me some time to fit it in my reading schedule.

It took me ~8-9 weeks to read the ARC; I'm not going to commit to trying to read the final copy now. Does anyone know what the substantive differences are?


Jane: Ohh, you are trying to deal with your loneliness by surrounding yourself with friends, hmm, how's that going to work?

 

#72 2017-06-28 16:43:59

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

PASSAVELLES CHAT SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS



I thought his story was sad and felt bad for his early childhood, but kept feeling like there was something subtly "off" about him until he paid Porto to protect Morgan. Then, he killed someone and is revealed to have been exchanging letters with Nabban (I would have killed to have that letter in-text, but I'm sure we will find out more in the next book) and suddenly his earlier behavior is a lot more suspect:

-has a secret room
-asking about Tanahaya, wanting to know anything she says in her sleep, etc.
-even his care for Morgan is suspect.

I think he (or his Nabban contacts) see Morgan as an easy puppet ruler. In fact, I'm hazarding to guess the entire plea for the King and Queen to intervene was to get them out of the Hayholt and to Nabban to bump them off. The riots may have even been set up to engineer that very outcome, depending on how wickedly clever the Duke is. At that point in the story, Morgan is outwardly an idiot, seemingly selfish, and more drunk than not (of course, being in his head, we know he is capable of kindness and has at least some of that inquisitive nature that Simon had - see his observations about direction to Aditu, etc.).

This swerve was pretty well done. We should probably do a GOT/TWC comparisons thread listing parallels and doubles since Tad said he would be "carrying on the conversation". The setup is that Idela is Cersei - or so we think! But she turns out to be much more naive than we thought. What we find out at the end makes Passavelles into Cersei: he's even using his body/sex appeal to manipulate people! A bit worrying that Miri is on her way to a wedding...

Last edited by ajl3 (2017-06-28 17:40:05)

 

#73 2017-06-28 17:23:39

Pretzalz
Pilgrim
From: USA
Registered: 2001-06-02
Posts: 2256

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

ajl3 wrote:

PASSAVELLES CHAT SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS


A bit worrying that Miri is on her way to a wedding...

If you really like Simon and Miri, it must be a bit scary how killable they are in this narrative.


Jane: Ohh, you are trying to deal with your loneliness by surrounding yourself with friends, hmm, how's that going to work?

 

#74 2017-06-28 17:38:54

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK


Ylvs wrote:

As I said in the place that does not exist my gut tells me Josua is dead. But we'll see about that.

I know I've said it before, but I think he's alive just due to his character being such a "legacy" figure (a major character, maybe as much as Simon in importance) and what it would mean to kill him off-screen. It would continue the references we've seen so far to history repeating itself by making him Camaris of this trilogy (he could be lost or half-mad somewhere, or a prisoner as others have suggested).

In fact, I've come to realize Brother Etan's quest (I think we'll get more of his actual POV for the search when it becomes relevant, which I applaud Tad's choice of keeping brief via letter while it's not), from a writer's POV, would not be too useful if he's solely going to find out about Derra or Deornoth: Eolair is in a position to find out about Deornoth (odds on him getting captured by those Thirthings riders and then his captors joining or being conquered by Unver are pretty good) and Viyeki knows about Derra (though not the context of who she is) and is in the general area of a lot of the other characters like Morgan, anyone at the Hayholt, etc. (odds on him having to go on the run from his own people by book 3 also seem good, or of Morgan bumbling into Naglimund while they hold it).

That leaves the only real thing Etan could accomplish without being redundant as a) tracking down Lady Fuira b) tracking down Josua.

Ylvs wrote:

I don't think the timeline adds up for Josua to be Jarnulf's father. Didn't he get lost something like 10 years after the fall of GAT?

I had this impression as well, though I don't recall if an actual date is stated. On his AMA, I see you posed the question about how long ago the Thirthing War II where the family got split up in happened, and for other readers of the board's sake Tad answered about 20 years earlier (though he hadn't narrowed it down completely yet). That makes the twins about 14 when Josua vanished and Jarnulf would have to be about 7 years younger than he states. I could easily see Jarnuaga just being an uncle or some respected figure the family knew about (perhaps the mother and/or father were at Naglimund and were saved due to him guarding the tunnel.)

 

#75 2017-06-28 23:01:37

Ostrael Firsfronson
Pilgrim
From: Ronglimund
Registered: 2013-02-13
Posts: 256

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Pretzalz wrote:

It took me ~8-9 weeks to read the ARC; I'm not going to commit to trying to read the final copy now. Does anyone know what the substantive differences are?

An excellent question. I'm setting aside some time this weekend to look into it. I haven't noticed huge changes so far, but some things have become muddled in my head. I do know some chapters were rearranged, at editorial discretion. But other than that, I'm not sure. Ylvs will know, though, I've no doubt.

Pretzalz, it's been really good to have you back.

 
  • Index
  •  » Osten Ard
  •  » FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Board footer

Powered by PunBB