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  •  » FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

#26 2017-06-28 01:18:41

Kenan
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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

You could be right about Utuk'ku knowing who Derra is, but then why keep her alive at all? The queen does not tolerate dissent, even from her own great-grand-daughter.

Maybe she holds Josua prisoned, or knows his whereabouts, and keeps a close eye on Nezeru in order to use her against him at an opportune time. *wild speculation*


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#27 2017-06-28 02:01:34

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

ylvs wrote:

Guthwulf is dead as a doornail in the depths of the Hayholt.

To Greenangel Tower wrote:

For a moment, as he scrambled across the uneven  floor, he clung to the wild hope that Guthwulf had grown well enough to leave the cavern, but the presence of Bright-Nail still gripped in his own  ngers made that seem very unlikely: the blind man would not for a moment allow someone else to have his blade.
When Simon reached Guthwulf, the earl’s skin was cool as river clay.
He did not weep, but his feeling of loss was great. His sorrow was not for Guthwulf the man, who except for these last dreamlike hours or days he had only known as a fearsome  gure, but for himself, left alone once more.
Almost alone. Something bumped against his shin. The cat seemed to be trying to get his attention. It missed its companion, Simon felt sure. Perhaps it thought that somehow he could wake Guthwulf where it had failed.
“Sorry,” he whispered, running his  ngers down its back and gently tugging its tail. “He’s gone somewhere else. I’m lonely, too.”

I admit it's a longshot, but could Simon have been wrong about Guthwulf's death? Maybe Guthwulf felt cold and clammy to the touch because he was sick.

Because who else is going to make a Scrollbearer pendant which is the wrong color?

Where and how would Guthwulf have ever seen a scrollbearer pendant?


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#28 2017-06-28 03:10:13

ajl3
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Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS

ylvs wrote:

Guthwulf is dead as a doornail in the depths of the Hayholt.

He's naturally clammy.

Kenan wrote:

IMO Hugh and the Witch are either #1 meant to be a distraction for Simon/mortal men while Utuk'ku puts her plans in motion. If so they haven't distracted so far, but I'm guessing that's about to change. Or #2 it's meant to cause more death between men, since everyone needs to die already. #2 could also just be a lucky consequence of #1. Do we think Utuk'ku actually needs something from the Hernystiri? It's possible. But I don't know what that could be. But could it be about drawing out the Sithi?

Your last part about the Sithi is a good point. Ylvs and I both agree (or did, in case she changed her mind) that Hugh's men are part of the attacks on the Sithi. I think they've been driving wedges between them to keep both sides weak. Unver might be the one who ends up being the distraction: sieging Naglimund could be quite dangerous, especially if they need to hold it for Viyeki's crew to do an excavation - it's not all that far from the Hayholt.

I think Unver will end up attacking a ton of different places ("kingdoms will rise and fall by his hand"), including Erkynland and Nabban.

Also: it would be hilarious if the "witch" is totally innocent of murdering her husband etc. and Hugh is 100% solo behind all of the bad things happening there. It would be a nice spin on the "sorcerer seductress" role. Or, maybe she is a witch and he's using her.

Firs wrote:

I don't think Unver will attack the Norns; I think Cyan is right that he will try to conquer Nabban instead.

You could be right about Utuk'ku knowing who Derra is, but then why keep her alive at all? The queen does not tolerate dissent, even from her own great-grand-daughter.

I don't think Unver will attack the Norns - yet. Utuk'ku probably wants him causing chaos, but I think if he finds out his sister is potentially in danger in Nakkiga he's going to go after her (this is probably a book 3 thing, I'd imagine he's more of an antagonist in Empire of Grass). I'm not sure why Utuk'ku wants Derra, but she's probably kept alive to fulfill some purpose of this plan.

Last edited by ajl3 (2017-06-28 03:14:12)

 

#29 2017-06-28 06:06:06

Ad1tu
Pilgrim
From: Buffysadharc
Registered: 2004-02-22
Posts: 6331

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

I can't read anything in here :( I made it through Chapter 3 last night! Which...

***SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 ****

Corpse-giant is not quite as creepy as I imagined. I expected talking to the corpse of a giant! Not a giant that eats corpses. Oh well.


If you should do what makes you happy, and no one can tell you what makes you happy, then that means no one can tell you what to do!

Tamishu's Ramblings

 

#30 2017-06-28 06:10:50

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23107
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS

ylvs wrote:

Where and how would Guthwulf have ever seen a scrollbearer pendant?

Wasn't he besties with Pryrates and Elias for two years? Pryrates is a former Scrollbearer.

Cadrach clearly believed that Pryrates was looking for him; this is why he cast a ward on himself to become untraceable; no one could reach Miriamele via the Dream Road while she traveled with Cadrach. Pryrates also sent guards after the "wizard's apprentice", and Pryrates killed Dinivan, just after mocking him for being a "Scroll Pig". Ookequk was killed on the Dream Road by something. It is inconceivable to me that Pryrates never mentioned to Elias that the League of the Scroll was something to watch out for; isn't this why Simon and Binabik believed they'd have difficulty getting into the Hayholt? Because they were Wanted. Didn't the bad guys go after the Scrollbearers time and time again? But they never mentioned the Scrollbearers to each other?

When Pryrates was kicked out of the League, do you think he obediently gave back his pendant?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#31 2017-06-28 06:23:18

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23107
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not sure what I expected. I wanted her to be a good Norn for other reasons than being of Josua's relation. She still could be, I suppose, but Josua's blood casts a shadow.
Also, you pointed out earlier that Josua wasn't of John Presbyter's blood, but it was still doubly noble, from both Hernystir and Nabban.

That's true.

Could Nezeru's connection to Hernystir draw her into the trouble there?

I wonder if that bloodline will even be explored.

What does Nezeru despise? She will find happiness with it according to prophecy.

Nezeru despises her human side. But the prophecy is about her mother, Tsoja.

Where do you think Josua is hiding?

No idea. But it's possible that he is Jarnulf's father. But then why make a pendant that is the wrong metal? He obviously knows what the Scrollbearer pendant should look like, as a Scrollbearer himself.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#32 2017-06-28 06:28:04

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23107
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

You could be right about Utuk'ku knowing who Derra is, but then why keep her alive at all? The queen does not tolerate dissent, even from her own great-grand-daughter.

Maybe she holds Josua prisoned, or knows his whereabouts, and keeps a close eye on Nezeru in order to use her against him at an opportune time. *wild speculation*

Okay, not a bad bit of wild speculation.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#33 2017-06-28 06:38:35

Kenan
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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8754
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

What does Nezeru despise? She will find happiness with it according to prophecy.

Nezeru despises her human side. But the prophecy is about her mother, Tsoja.

Where do you think Josua is hiding?

No idea. But it's possible that he is Jarnulf's father. But then why make a pendant that is the wrong metal? He obviously knows what the Scrollbearer pendant should look like, as a Scrollbearer himself.

Oops! Got confused for a second.

I considered Josua being Jarnulf's father. And why not? He might not have access to the required metal when he made the pendant. Btw remind me which metals we're talking about? It's supposed to be silver but he made it gold?


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#34 2017-06-28 06:43:31

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23107
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

ajl3 wrote:

SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS

Your last part about the Sithi is a good point. Ylvs and I both agree (or did, in case she changed her mind) that Hugh's men are part of the attacks on the Sithi. I think they've been driving wedges between them to keep both sides weak. Unver might be the one who ends up being the distraction: sieging Naglimund could be quite dangerous, especially if they need to hold it for Viyeki's crew to do an excavation - it's not all that far from the Hayholt.

So you think Hugh's men are behind the Tanahaya assassination attempt?

I think Unver will end up attacking a ton of different places ("kingdoms will rise and fall by his hand"), including Erkynland and Nabban.

If so, Unver has only two volumes left to accomplish his goal... one reason why I think this will not fit into just two more volumes. He's got to conquer at least two countries in the next two volumes.

Also: it would be hilarious if the "witch" is totally innocent of murdering her husband etc. and Hugh is 100% solo behind all of the bad things happening there. It would be a nice spin on the "sorcerer seductress" role.

Now, that would be interesting!

I don't think Unver will attack the Norns - yet. Utuk'ku probably wants him causing chaos, but I think if he finds out his sister is potentially in danger in Nakkiga he's going to go after her (this is probably a book 3 thing, I'd imagine he's more of an antagonist in Empire of Grass). I'm not sure why Utuk'ku wants Derra, but she's probably kept alive to fulfill some purpose of this plan.

Seems plausible, but I'm not fully convinced yet.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#35 2017-06-28 06:47:40

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23107
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Oops! Got confused for a second.

Yeah, I get confused, too. I haven't read TWC enough to have it memorized yet! But I suspect in time we will know this text quite well.

I considered Josua being Jarnulf's father. And why not? He might not have access to the required metal when he made the pendant. Btw remind me which metals we're talking about? It's supposed to be silver but he made it gold?

It's supposed to be gold, but someone made it silver, and it doesn't have the inscription it's supposed to have.

If Josua is Jarnulf's father, then Nezeru is Jarnulf's niece. Which might limit romance between Nezeru/Jarnulf.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#36 2017-06-28 06:47:41

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8754
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

I think Unver will end up attacking a ton of different places ("kingdoms will rise and fall by his hand"), including Erkynland and Nabban.

If so, Unver has only two volumes left to accomplish his goal... one reason why I think this will not fit into just two more volumes. He's got to conquer at least two countries in the next two volumes.

I never thought "by his hand" actually meant by sword. It would be more interesting if there's some other action that brings about these risings (rises?) and falls. I imagine a single (chain of) event(s) that brings about this cataclysm.

Last edited by Kenan (2017-06-28 06:48:24)


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#37 2017-06-28 06:50:02

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8754
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

It's supposed to be gold, but someone made it silver, and it doesn't have the inscription it's supposed to have.

And a shortage of gold lying about wouldn't be strange at all. As for the inscription I don't have an explanation.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#38 2017-06-28 06:56:51

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23107
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

It's supposed to be gold, but someone made it silver, and it doesn't have the inscription it's supposed to have.

And a shortage of gold lying about wouldn't be strange at all. As for the inscription I don't have an explanation.

There's no gold, but there's plenty of silver laying around? Ooh! Crackpot theory! Jarnulf's father is Yis-fidri. It would explain why the pendant is silver: Yis-fidri came from the Silverhome, Mezutu'a.

I don't really buy this theory, but it should be explored.

We should also consider the theory that Cadrach or Camaris are Jarnulf's father. Camaris seems a bit far-fetched, considering his age at the end of TGAT. But it might explain Jarnulf's piety.

If Camaris is Jarnulf's father, Nezeru is Jarnulf's grand-niece. I think.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#39 2017-06-28 07:04:10

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8754
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

It's supposed to be gold, but someone made it silver, and it doesn't have the inscription it's supposed to have.

And a shortage of gold lying about wouldn't be strange at all. As for the inscription I don't have an explanation.

There's no gold, but there's plenty of silver laying around? Ooh! Crackpot theory! Jarnulf's father is Yis-fidri. It would explain why the pendant is silver: Yis-fidri came from the Silverhome, Mezutu'a.

I don't really buy this theory, but it should be explored.

We should also consider the theory that Cadrach or Camaris are Jarnulf's father. Camaris seems a bit far-fetched, considering his age at the end of TGAT. But it might explain Jarnulf's piety.

I'm not saying silver is lying around! But if he happened to have silver but no gold that wouldn't be hard to understand. Or if he had a piece of silver in something else, should he save it and go mine for gold? You see what I mean, I hope.

It's an interesting theory about Yis-Fidri, but it doesn't go along with the whole "we're going somewhere safe", does it? Also, what's the connection between Yis-Fidri and scrollbearers?

I think Jarnulf's name's similarity to Jarnauga is too strong to ignore. They have a similar ancestry, are relatives, or have been given their names from the same place/people.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#40 2017-06-28 07:07:17

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23107
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Ad1tu wrote:

I can't read anything in here :( I made it through Chapter 3 last night! Which...

***SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3 ****

Corpse-giant is not quite as creepy as I imagined. I expected talking to the corpse of a giant! Not a giant that eats corpses. Oh well.

Hang in there, Ad1tu! It might be best to avoid this thread for a while. But we should have a thread for less spoilery stuff, too...


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#41 2017-06-28 07:09:46

Kenan
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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8754
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

If Camaris is Jarnulf's father, Nezeru is Jarnulf's grand-niece. I think.

Cheat-editing!

Well let's see

Camaris - Josua - Tsoja/Derra - Nezeru
Camaris - Jarnulf

Do you say grand-niece? Not great-niece? Anyway, seems like you're right :)

Too many relationships to keep track of, plus all suspected relationships!

Anyway, did we know about Jarnauga's possible family? Jarnulf could be his grandson or something.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#42 2017-06-28 07:20:47

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23107
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

I'm not saying silver is lying around! But if he happened to have silver but no gold that wouldn't be hard to understand. Or if he had a piece of silver in something else, should he save it and go mine for gold? You see what I mean, I hope.

I do... but I'm not fully convinced. Why take the time to make the pendant identical to the other pendants... but make it with the wrong metal? If it's so important for it to look like the other pendants, why not use an alloy, like brass, to make it appear gold?

It's an interesting theory about Yis-Fidri, but it doesn't go along with the whole "we're going somewhere safe", does it? Also, what's the connection between Yis-Fidri and scrollbearers?

I've got to admit there's almost no connection between Yis-fidri and the Scrollbearers. Yis-fidri did once talk with Cadrach.

I think Jarnulf's name's similarity to Jarnauga is too strong to ignore. They have a similar ancestry, are relatives, or have been given their names from the same place/people.

The Jarnulf/Jarnauga name resemblance is strong, it's true. And in Osten Ard, male names often follow similar patterns: Isbeorn/Isgrimnur/Isorn. I do believe Jarnauga is a strong candidate for Jarnulf's dad. But we run into the same issue we have with Guthwulf: he's supposedly dead for the past 34 years. (Actually, in the case of Jarnauga, probably closer to 36 years, right Ylvs, Mistress of the Timeline?)

But what of Ajl3's excellent point about the similarity between Guthwulf's name and Jarnulf's name? The -ulf ending.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#43 2017-06-28 07:24:20

Kenan
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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8754
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

I think Jarnulf's name's similarity to Jarnauga is too strong to ignore. They have a similar ancestry, are relatives, or have been given their names from the same place/people.

The Jarnulf/Jarnauga name resemblance is strong, it's true. And in Osten Ard, male names often follow similar patterns: Isbeorn/Isgrimnur/Isorn. I do believe Jarnauga is a strong candidate for Jarnulf's dad. But we run into the same issue we have with Guthwulf: he's supposedly dead for the past 34 years. (Actually, probably closer to 36 years, right Ylvs, Mistress of the Timeline?)

But what of Ajl3's excellent point about the similarity between Guthwulf's name and Jarnulf's name? The -ulf ending.

Simple, it's not the same ending. Guth-wulf, Jarn-ulf. That's enough to put their heritage nations apart :)


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#44 2017-06-28 07:31:36

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23107
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

If Camaris is Jarnulf's father, Nezeru is Jarnulf's grand-niece. I think.

Cheat-editing!

Haha! True.

Well let's see

Camaris - Josua - Tsoja/Derra - Nezeru
Camaris - Jarnulf

Do you say grand-niece? Not great-niece? Anyway, seems like you're right :)

We say... I guess we say grand-niece. At least in the US, or the part of the US that I'm from.

Too many relationships to keep track of, plus all suspected relationships!

Anyway, did we know about Jarnauga's possible family? Jarnulf could be his grandson or something.

Jarnauga's father was Trestolt, a Scrollbearer, but no children of Jarnauga are mentioned, that I'm aware of. But if Jarnulf is 28, Jarnauga wasn't killed at Naglimund. Or he came back from the dead, or something.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#45 2017-06-28 07:37:38

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8754
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Jarnauga's father was Trestolt, a Scrollbearer, but no children of Jarnauga are mentioned, that I'm aware of. But if Jarnulf is 28, Jarnauga wasn't killed at Naglimund. Or he came back from the dead, or something.

No, I thought Jarnauga might have a family since before MST. Possibly his child was captured by the Norns, either in the past or during MST+aftermath, but this individual knew their father was Jarnauga, a scrollbearer and had learned something from him. Then they got a child with a Norn -> Jarnulf, taught him about the scrollbearing business.

Back to the metals...
Why would brass be simpler to make than reusing silver if you already have some? I don't see your problem with this explanation. Silver is easier to melt and rework than gold or copper for instance.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#46 2017-06-28 07:43:50

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERSSPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS

ylvs wrote:

Where and how would Guthwulf have ever seen a scrollbearer pendant?

Wasn't he besties with Pryrates and Elias for two years? Pryrates is a former Scrollbearer.

Guthwulf was besties with Elias before he fell under Pryrates' spell. At no time is Guthwulf close to Pryrates or anything he and the king are plotting. Quite the contrary the closer P&E become the more the king is estranged from his old friend. And from the other side I see no reason why Pryrates should confide anything in Guthwulf whom he holds in no high esteem throughout the book. Also he destest the Scrollbearers after he leaves them. Why show around their symbol?

No. Nothing you say Firs convinces me Guthwulf should know the pendant.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#47 2017-06-28 07:56:08

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK
Where do you think Josua is hiding?

No idea. But it's possible that he is Jarnulf's father. But then why make a pendant that is the wrong metal? He obviously knows what the Scrollbearer pendant should look like, as a Scrollbearer himself.

As I said in the place that does not exist my gut tells me Josua is dead. But we'll see about that.
I don't think the timeline adds up for Josua to be Jarnulf's father. Didn't he get lost something like 10 years after the fall of GAT? Jarnulf could not be older then 23 then for Josua to be his dad. Unless he had a family aside for some years which is so much out of character for Josua that I cannot imagine it.
Maybe Jarnauga is just random guy with unrelated heritage. I would like that.

Also: concerning Nezeru: I think her being Camaris descendant is far more important than Josua's - think fiercest warrior of his generation etc. I also see much more of Vorzehva's fierceness in her than Josua's broodiness ... And to nit another pick: it's Tzoja not Tsoja.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#48 2017-06-28 08:00:37

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

ajl3 wrote:

SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS SPOILERS FOR ENTIRE BOOK SPOILERS

Your last part about the Sithi is a good point. Ylvs and I both agree (or did, in case she changed her mind) that Hugh's men are part of the attacks on the Sithi. I think they've been driving wedges between them to keep both sides weak. Unver might be the one who ends up being the distraction: sieging Naglimund could be quite dangerous, especially if they need to hold it for Viyeki's crew to do an excavation - it's not all that far from the Hayholt.

So you think Hugh's men are behind the Tanahaya assassination attempt?

Absolutely. As well as behind the attempt to kill Likemeya. The bond between Hernystiri and Sithi is no more. Hugh is with the Norns.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#49 2017-06-28 08:04:12

Magpie
Mantis
From: miraculously thistle-free town
Registered: 2006-03-27
Posts: 32652
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Jarnauga stayed behind at Naglimund to guard the door the others escaped through, didn't he? He could have been captured instead of killed.
(Theoretically. Given Jarnauga's age, I'm leaning more towards grandson or some other kind of relative.)


Basically, I'm Prince Josua in jeans and sneakers, or a different flavor of Renie Sulaweyo.
- Tad

Master of Gardening, Mistress of Kingdom Plantae, Defender of the Seedlings, Guardian of Root and Bough
Scrollbearer and offerer of some very useful opinions

 

#50 2017-06-28 08:04:23

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

It's supposed to be gold, but someone made it silver, and it doesn't have the inscription it's supposed to have.

And a shortage of gold lying about wouldn't be strange at all. As for the inscription I don't have an explanation.

I think the pendant is made by someone who has knowledge about the Scrollbearers and shares their ideals but no intimate knowledge. Hence the mistakes. No explanation for the who and how I am afraid.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 
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