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#1 2017-06-27 14:56:49

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

I am soo glad to finally open a discussion everybody can join -

Happy TWC publication day everybody!

Not sure how to manage this in a way nobody will get spoiled accidentally.

Here's my suggestion: if necessary open with a spoiler warning mentioning up to where readers might be spoiled. Like eg:

SPOILER WARNING UPTO CHAPTER 3 ... SPOILER WARNING UPTO CHAPTER 3 ... SPOILER WARNING UPTO CHAPTER 3 ... SPOILER WARNING UPTO CHAPTER 3 ...

Or something like that. You'll manage.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
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#2 2017-06-27 16:10:29

Pretzalz
Pilgrim
From: USA
Registered: 2001-06-02
Posts: 2256

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

There is something that I saw on twitter a month ago and have been wanting to discuss in relation to The Witchwood Crown. The blood will win out trope. That the hero isn't just some random person that rises up and seizes the day, but they have to be descended from someone even if they don't know it. And how it borders on eugenics. I don't think anyone in Otherland was descended from someone special, but suddenly when we go back into a medieval setting it seems like everyone has to have royal ancestry to be a hero. What exactly changes? I think I've read a fantasy once or twice where the hero is a nobody that becomes king, and sometimes it is even mentioned that the first king has to come from somewhere. Unver being Joshua's son[or perhaps grandson as I was confused on his age for a while] was a little transparent, but it made sense that his children would make a reappearance. Simon being secret royalty in the original trilogy I could pass off as it being 25 years ago.

But Nezeru being Joshua's granddaughter seemed a bit much, and seemed to lessen her character a little. Suddenly she is special because she is Joshua's granddaughter instead of just in her own right. I guess we still have Porto and Jarnulf. I guess Porto is still alive[I can't believe that group would be killed off-page], but Jarnulf's parentage is still a little mysterious so I shudder to think there is still a reveal coming there.

When I saw talk of this on twitter, they weren't talking about Osten Ard, but just epic fantasy in general, and I had never really stopped to think about it. It was just one of those tropes that seemed to recur with regularity. Do people think this line of criticism is fair? Maybe I was being naive thinking Joshua's daughter didn't have to reappear as well, but I was caught off-guard. I guess one of them could have died in the intervening time.


Jane: Ohh, you are trying to deal with your loneliness by surrounding yourself with friends, hmm, how's that going to work?

 

#3 2017-06-27 16:31:43

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8752
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Pretzalz wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

There is something that I saw on twitter a month ago and have been wanting to discuss in relation to The Witchwood Crown. The blood will win out trope. That the hero isn't just some random person that rises up and seizes the day, but they have to be descended from someone even if they don't know it. And how it borders on eugenics. I don't think anyone in Otherland was descended from someone special, but suddenly when we go back into a medieval setting it seems like everyone has to have royal ancestry to be a hero. What exactly changes? I think I've read a fantasy once or twice where the hero is a nobody that becomes king, and sometimes it is even mentioned that the first king has to come from somewhere. Unver being Joshua's son[or perhaps grandson as I was confused on his age for a while] was a little transparent, but it made sense that his children would make a reappearance. Simon being secret royalty in the original trilogy I could pass off as it being 25 years ago.

But Nezeru being Joshua's granddaughter seemed a bit much, and seemed to lessen her character a little. Suddenly she is special because she is Joshua's granddaughter instead of just in her own right. I guess we still have Porto and Jarnulf. I guess Porto is still alive[I can't believe that group would be killed off-page], but Jarnulf's parentage is still a little mysterious so I shudder to think there is still a reveal coming there.

When I saw talk of this on twitter, they weren't talking about Osten Ard, but just epic fantasy in general, and I had never really stopped to think about it. It was just one of those tropes that seemed to recur with regularity. Do people think this line of criticism is fair? Maybe I was being naive thinking Joshua's daughter didn't have to reappear as well, but I was caught off-guard. I guess one of them could have died in the intervening time.

I think Osten Ard is a world that demands something of lineage from its heroes. It's a world where royalty and nobility have a quality which puts them above most others. I'll allow others to define what that quality is exactly. But there is room for the common man too, Tiamat is a fine example.
There are more of average people in Shadowmarch, I think, and there's plenty of modern fantasy where the heroes cannot trace their lineage for ages. But then, there is something to be said for using characters of royalty... you get to use the whole court as your playground, vast resources for the characters, and possibly complicated political situations.
But I'm sure there's needless blue blood in heroes too.

As for the characters in tWC, we knew they would appear since Tad said so, though personally I was surprised they showed up so soon. I'm not disappointed in finding out their lineage, but I expected something else in Nezeru's case.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#4 2017-06-27 17:11:42

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Pretzalz wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

There is something that I saw on twitter a month ago and have been wanting to discuss in relation to The Witchwood Crown. The blood will win out trope. That the hero isn't just some random person that rises up and seizes the day, but they have to be descended from someone even if they don't know it. And how it borders on eugenics. I don't think anyone in Otherland was descended from someone special, but suddenly when we go back into a medieval setting it seems like everyone has to have royal ancestry to be a hero. What exactly changes? I think I've read a fantasy once or twice where the hero is a nobody that becomes king, and sometimes it is even mentioned that the first king has to come from somewhere. Unver being Joshua's son[or perhaps grandson as I was confused on his age for a while] was a little transparent, but it made sense that his children would make a reappearance. Simon being secret royalty in the original trilogy I could pass off as it being 25 years ago.

But Nezeru being Joshua's granddaughter seemed a bit much, and seemed to lessen her character a little. Suddenly she is special because she is Joshua's granddaughter instead of just in her own right. I guess we still have Porto and Jarnulf. I guess Porto is still alive[I can't believe that group would be killed off-page], but Jarnulf's parentage is still a little mysterious so I shudder to think there is still a reveal coming there.

When I saw talk of this on twitter, they weren't talking about Osten Ard, but just epic fantasy in general, and I had never really stopped to think about it. It was just one of those tropes that seemed to recur with regularity. Do people think this line of criticism is fair? Maybe I was being naive thinking Joshua's daughter didn't have to reappear as well, but I was caught off-guard. I guess one of them could have died in the intervening time.

Both of those characters seem special because of how good of parents they have had, which is what makes them differ from the usual fantasy- even Morgan has ha good moral and political lessons that will prepare him to be a hero if he *listens* to them, not just their blood. Certain other noble characters are less than ideal despite their blood - the only common villains are people used by their rulers (even Jarnulf realizes the Norns are just slaves to the Queen).

I actually thought the reveal of Nezeru's lineage was beautiful in that Tad doesn't point out what it means or draw arrows, but it means that even in this distant and evil mountain there's a big family; consider what Porto says in chapter 2, which to me seems like one of the driving points of the trilogy- borders will not matter given enough time: ironically, he lists the Norns as one of the few exceptions that will *never* change. It also plays off of Nezeru's self-hatred of her mortal blood: she sees it as the weak part of her that he must overcome, but just compare Viyeki with, say, Josua. Knowing how Tad writes about family, there will no doubt be incredible payoff in terms of both drama for Nezeru and maybe a touching moment or two from an unexpected source (Simon definitely considers Josua family, so how does *he* react? Etc.) Plus you know there's a lot of potential for humor.

Last edited by ajl3 (2017-06-27 17:24:08)

 

#5 2017-06-27 19:57:25

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Thank god I can talk now!!!!!


!!!!!!!

*soaks in thread, happily* Ahhhh... *contented sigh*

Pretzalz wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

There is something that I saw on twitter a month ago and have been wanting to discuss in relation to The Witchwood Crown. The blood will win out trope. That the hero isn't just some random person that rises up and seizes the day, but they have to be descended from someone even if they don't know it. And how it borders on eugenics. I don't think anyone in Otherland was descended from someone special, but suddenly when we go back into a medieval setting it seems like everyone has to have royal ancestry to be a hero. What exactly changes? I think I've read a fantasy once or twice where the hero is a nobody that becomes king, and sometimes it is even mentioned that the first king has to come from somewhere. Unver being Joshua's son[or perhaps grandson as I was confused on his age for a while] was a little transparent, but it made sense that his children would make a reappearance. Simon being secret royalty in the original trilogy I could pass off as it being 25 years ago.

It's a trope for sure. And one that is overdone in Fantasy.

Is Nezeru special because of Josua's blood? I wouldn't think so: Josua isn't even the son of Presbyter John; he's the descendant of Llythinn. (This, in fact, makes Nezeru cousins with King Hugh... interesting, considering what's going on in Hernystir).

I didn't think the point was that Nezeru has royal blood (MS&T examined the trope of the great king, inverting it; John turned out to be a liar and someone who wasn't even royalty before coming to the throne). I thought the point was that: Tsoja is Derra! Dun Dun Dun!

But Nezeru being Joshua's granddaughter seemed a bit much, and seemed to lessen her character a little. Suddenly she is special because she is Joshua's granddaughter instead of just in her own right.

She went through all the tests, and was raised to Talon. Would the decision-makers even have had her promoted if they knew of her lineage? If they had known she was the descendant of the man who brought down their kingdom, and sent their great queen into a coma?

I guess we still have Porto and Jarnulf. I guess Porto is still alive[I can't believe that group would be killed off-page], but Jarnulf's parentage is still a little mysterious so I shudder to think there is still a reveal coming there.

Yeah, I really wonder about Jarnulf's parentage, too. At first, I thought he might be Jarnauga's son, but that seems too obvious. I also considered Ingen Jegger.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#6 2017-06-27 20:07:36

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Pretzalz wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Kenan wrote:

I think Osten Ard is a world that demands something of lineage from its heroes. It's a world where royalty and nobility have a quality which puts them above most others. I'll allow others to define what that quality is exactly.

Royal blood does seem to have "special" properties, at least in MS&T. I seem to recall that the Norns were pleased when they thought Josua would be sacrificed at Thisterborg.

But there is room for the common man too, Tiamat is a fine example.

Exactly. MS&T lampshaded that "royal blood" trope. Simon turns out to be the descendant of King Saint Eahlstan, but he realizes, "So what? That was generations ago." Simon realizes he's where he's at not because of some ancestor, but because of what they have all accomplished as a team.

As for the characters in tWC, we knew they would appear since Tad said so, though personally I was surprised they showed up so soon. I'm not disappointed in finding out their lineage, but I expected something else in Nezeru's case.

So what did you expect in Nezeru's case? Please share, goodly duke.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#7 2017-06-27 20:13:38

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

ajl3 wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

I actually thought the reveal of Nezeru's lineage was beautiful in that Tad doesn't point out what it means or draw arrows, but it means that even in this distant and evil mountain there's a big family; consider what Porto says in chapter 2, which to me seems like one of the driving points of the trilogy- borders will not matter given enough time: ironically, he lists the Norns as one of the few exceptions that will *never* change. It also plays off of Nezeru's self-hatred of her mortal blood: she sees it as the weak part of her that he must overcome, but just compare Viyeki with, say, Josua. Knowing how Tad writes about family, there will no doubt be incredible payoff in terms of both drama for Nezeru and maybe a touching moment or two from an unexpected source (Simon definitely considers Josua family, so how does *he* react? Etc.) Plus you know there's a lot of potential for humor.

Humor? How?

I did like the Derra/Tsoja reveal (and didn't see it coming). Deornoth seemed obvious, which is what made the Tsoja/Derra one more stunning for me.

Do you think Simon/Miri will interact with Nezeru at some point?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#8 2017-06-27 20:17:14

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Okay, now tell me this: What are Hakatri's bones and the blood of a dragon for? Where was "Yis-gimli's" body? What are Hugh and his witch bride up to? And who shot JR... I mean, Tanahaya?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#9 2017-06-27 21:45:05

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK CONTINUED SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK I REPEAT

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Is Nezeru special because of Josua's blood? I wouldn't think so: Josua isn't even the son of Presbyter John; he's the descendant of Llythinn. (This, in fact, makes Nezeru cousins with King Hugh... interesting, considering what's going on in Hernystir).

Huh, I forgot all about that. I wonder if it's going to be A Thing. Thinking of the various sacrifices in Shadowmarch that require special blood.

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

She went through all the tests, and was raised to Talon. Would the decision-makers even have had her promoted if they knew of her lineage? If they had known she was the descendant of the man who brought down their kingdom, and sent their great queen into a coma?

This is a good point. Based on what we've seen of the Norns, they would have definitely had Derra killed and probably Nezeru, too. Viyeki might be safe, but his career would be over. That said, I have reason to think *the Queen* knows exactly who Derra is and wants her, but I'll save that for later.

Firs wrote:

Yeah, I really wonder about Jarnulf's parentage, too. At first, I thought he might be Jarnauga's son, but that seems too obvious. I also considered Ingen Jegger.

For those wondering, Jarnulf is "28 seasons." If Witchwood is 34 years later, that leaves a 6 year gap. That rules out Jegger unless he somehow secretly survived (really, really, REALLY unlikely) or Jarnauga (who I'm pretty sure dies in Dragonbone's Naglimund siege, unless I'm misremembering?) Of the two, Jarnauga has the higher chance of having survived.

For some reason, I couldn't help but think of Guthwulf and how his name as a whole is basically Jarnauga + Guthwulf's names combined. No clue what that means, but the way Jarnulf's ring is described makes me think he doesn't know about the Scrollbearers first hand - i.e., it was described to him by someone in the know or he saw it from a distance. The ring he has is the wrong material and has no inscription on the inside, which might be something you know only if you saw one up close.

Firs wrote:

Humor? How?

Do you think Simon/Miri will interact with Nezeru at some point?

I could easily see Tad doing some everyone drops their jaws, someone faints or makes the sign of the Tree type jokes if Derra ever gets to introduce her family or Simon and the court etc. to her husband and/or daughter. The main interaction I hope we get with Nezeru is with Josua (somehow...I doubt he's dead), but I think Simon, etc. would be "fun" as well. In general, my favorite part of the book was the Nezeru/Jarnulf/Giant/Queen's Hand adventures - mixing the characters together was a great idea and lent plenty of drama, tension, and humor with the differing character types.

Last edited by ajl3 (2017-06-27 21:51:00)

 

#10 2017-06-27 21:48:00

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Everything that Firsfron said.  And also: WTF Pasavelles!?!?!?!?!?!!!


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

Scrollbearer
Proud Member of the Log Brigade

 

#11 2017-06-27 21:59:17

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

cyan wrote:

WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Everything that Firsfron said.  And also: WTF Pasavelles!?!?!?!?!?!!!

I KNOW, RIGHT!?!?!?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#12 2017-06-27 22:12:31

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

ajl3 wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

ajl3 wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Is Nezeru special because of Josua's blood? I wouldn't think so: Josua isn't even the son of Presbyter John; he's the descendant of Llythinn. (This, in fact, makes Nezeru cousins with King Hugh... interesting, considering what's going on in Hernystir).

Huh, I forgot all about that. I wonder if it's going to be A Thing. Thinking of the various sacrifices in Shadowmarch that require special blood.

So you think Nezeru might be sacrificed?

ajl3 wrote:

This is a good point. Based on what we've seen of the Norns, they would have definitely had Derra killed and probably Nezeru, too. Viyeki might be safe, but his career would be over. That said, I have reason to think *the Queen* knows exactly who Derra is and wants her, but I'll save that for later.

Huh. How would Utuk'ku know? Visions from the Harp? If so, why let Tsoja escape?

Firs wrote:

Yeah, I really wonder about Jarnulf's parentage, too. At first, I thought he might be Jarnauga's son, but that seems too obvious. I also considered Ingen Jegger.

For those wondering, Jarnulf is "28 seasons." If Witchwood is 34 years later, that leaves a 6 year gap. That rules out Jegger unless he somehow secretly survived (really, really, REALLY unlikely) or Jarnauga (who I'm pretty sure dies in Dragonbone's Naglimund siege, unless I'm misremembering?) Of the two, Jarnauga has the higher chance of having survived.

I don't think either one of them survived, but I don't have a good idea on who who Jarnulf's dad is. Good point about his age being all wrong for either J or IJ.

For some reason, I couldn't help but think of Guthwulf and how his name as a whole is basically Jarnauga + Guthwulf's names combined. No clue what that means, but the way Jarnulf's ring is described makes me think he doesn't know about the Scrollbearers first hand - i.e., it was described to him by someone in the know or he saw it from a distance. The ring he has is the wrong material and has no inscription on the inside, which might be something you know only if you saw one up close.

You are right about the ring, for sure. It's like it's a fake, or a replica. But why?

You mentioned Guthwulf, who is presumably dead. But if he were Jarnulf's dad, and gave him a scrollbearer pendant, that might explain why the color of the metal isn't right... Dun dun dun!


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#13 2017-06-27 22:32:51

ajl3
Pilgrim
Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Okay, now tell me this: What are Hakatri's bones and the blood of a dragon for? Where was "Yis-gimli's" body?

I have no idea. The Norns themselves leave the idea open that it might not be his bones, then decide the blackness on the bones from the dragon burns confirm it's him. I know Tad likes to leave mysteries, but I hope this is one thing we at least get some hints on. Yis-gimli...we know Tad said this trilogy would be "rotten" with Navigator's Children, but only a giant or two has shown up as actual characters so far, maybe he's still alive (somehow)? More importantly, we have to wonder: what killed Hakatri? How did he get to the island?

Don't forget that Ruyan Ve's armor is also involved in the plan. Are we looking at some sort of undead warrior/totem spirit thing? Hakatri seemed like a very nice, decent sort of guy in The Burning Man, so I don't see him willingly being a villain if he was brought back to life.

wrote:

What are Hugh and his witch bride up to?

Do we have any idea what the "bauble" the Norns gave him could be? At a guess, I suppose he could want to be the new Holly King: he sees himself as fit to rule all of Osten Ard. Would add to the "history repeating" idea and is sort of foreshadowed by the children's game at the end.


wrote:

And who shot JR... I mean, Tanahaya?

Waylon Smithers.

Actually, I have an entire very long post I'm writing up on that. Stay tuned!

Last edited by ajl3 (2017-06-27 22:36:16)

 

#14 2017-06-27 23:18:14

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

ajl3 wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Okay, now tell me this: What are Hakatri's bones and the blood of a dragon for? Where was "Yis-gimli's" body?

I have no idea. The Norns themselves leave the idea open that it might not be his bones, then decide the blackness on the bones from the dragon burns confirm it's him. I know Tad likes to leave mysteries, but I hope this is one thing we at least get some hints on. Yis-gimli...we know Tad said this trilogy would be "rotten" with Navigator's Children, but only a giant or two has shown up as actual characters so far, maybe he's still alive (somehow)? More importantly, we have to wonder: what killed Hakatri? How did he get to the island?

These are all good questions and observations.

I assumed he got to Qosei by traveling there with "Yis-gimli". But it's possible he later migrated there, or even died elsewhere and then his bones were moved to that island. Which would explain why we didn't see two sets of bones, and why also we didn't see "Y-g" during the events of The Burning Man. Then again, Tinukeda'ya aren't as long-lived as the Keida'ya, so it's possible he was already dead.

Good point about us still not knowing what killed Hakatri. He survived the burning... would his poor health have been the cause? I can't imagine anyone wanting to go on living through that much pain. Then again, he's not human, so we don't know how he might have felt. Still, it pains me to think of him in pain for centuries, only to die in the dark, presumably alone.

Don't forget that Ruyan Ve's armor is also involved in the plan. Are we looking at some sort of undead warrior/totem spirit thing? Hakatri seemed like a very nice, decent sort of guy in The Burning Man, so I don't see him willingly being a villain if he was brought back to life.

Yes, the armor! What was that about?

No, Hakatri would not be a willing victim, I guess... Unless Utuk'ku revealed that his brother was killed by the humans... then he might seek revenge. He did love his brother, apparently.

Do we have any idea what the "bauble" the Norns gave him could be? At a guess, I suppose he could want to be the new Holly King: he sees himself as fit to rule all of Osten Ard. Would add to the "history repeating" idea and is sort of foreshadowed by the children's game at the end.

I guessed the bauble was a witness they could use to contact The Morrigan, who I think is Utuk'ku. I also think Utuk'ku (or someone) is trying to call the Gardenborn to Nakkiga, and that's why that "gnomish-looking fellow" and Simon are both dreaming: they're being called to Nakkiga. The gnomish fellow has Tinukeda'ya blood. Simon has the blood of a dragon.

wrote:

And who shot JR... I mean, Tanahaya?

Waylon Smithers.

Haha! No, that was who shot Montgomery Burns.

Actually, I have an entire very long post I'm writing up on that. Stay tuned!

Looking forward to it!


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#15 2017-06-27 23:35:17

ajl3
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Registered: 2017-02-14
Posts: 360

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

So you think Nezeru might be sacrificed?

Not necessarily, I'm just curious if it was intentional on Tad's part.

wrote:

Huh. How would Utuk'ku know? Visions from the Harp? If so, why let Tsoja escape?

Unver has interference from the Morriga in his final chapter and maybe with the wolves as well, and the Morriga is or is partially Utuk'ku (this is worth an entire additional post, actually, because some pieces in the end fit together more if you put together what you're told with how the our world mythological Morrigan works). So, if she knows about one of them, she could know about both.

Remember the guards that are in Tsoja's room? They're Queen's Teeth, as I recall, not any old guard. Derra seems to think Viyeki's wife called them in, but all they say is "She will be upset." I'm thinking the Queen sent them to hold Derra for [x reasons, involving whatever her plan with Unver is - remember that his sole motivation is finding his sister and he will soon have a massive nation conquering army].

You mentioned Guthwulf, who is presumably dead. But if he were Jarnulf's dad, and gave him a scrollbearer pendant, that might explain why the color of the metal isn't right... Dun dun dun!

This actually makes a lot of sense. Tell me if I'm not remembering this right, but Guthwulf dies after he frees Simon of his own exhaustion/prior wounds, right? Last time we see him is in the water/wheel chamber beneath Hjeldin's Tower? If so, that's a plausible death retcon.

He was certainly extremely religious, believing the Norns to be literal hellspawn, so that part of Jarnulf's heritage makes sense (he seems to indicate his father taught him about Aedon.) I think we may have this one solved, crew...sort of.

 

#16 2017-06-28 00:35:52

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Guthwulf is dead as a doornail in the depths of the Hayholt.

To Greenangel Tower wrote:

For a moment, as he scrambled across the uneven  floor, he clung to the wild hope that Guthwulf had grown well enough to leave the cavern, but the presence of Bright-Nail still gripped in his own  ngers made that seem very unlikely: the blind man would not for a moment allow someone else to have his blade.
When Simon reached Guthwulf, the earl’s skin was cool as river clay.
He did not weep, but his feeling of loss was great. His sorrow was not for Guthwulf the man, who except for these last dreamlike hours or days he had only known as a fearsome  gure, but for himself, left alone once more.
Almost alone. Something bumped against his shin. The cat seemed to be trying to get his attention. It missed its companion, Simon felt sure. Perhaps it thought that somehow he could wake Guthwulf where it had failed.
“Sorry,” he whispered, running his  ngers down its back and gently tugging its tail. “He’s gone somewhere else. I’m lonely, too.”


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#17 2017-06-28 00:46:28

Kenan
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

And who shot JR... I mean, Tanahaya?

Waylon Smithers.

Haha! No, that was who shot Montgomery Burns.

Wasn't that Maggie Simpson?!??


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#18 2017-06-28 00:49:22

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
Website

Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

Waylon Smithers.

Haha! No, that was who shot Montgomery Burns.

Wasn't that Maggie Simpson?!??

Yes. The clues pointed to W and S on the sundial, but from Burns' perspective, it was M S.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#19 2017-06-28 00:52:07

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

ylvs wrote:

Guthwulf is dead as a doornail in the depths of the Hayholt.

To Greenangel Tower wrote:

For a moment, as he scrambled across the uneven  floor, he clung to the wild hope that Guthwulf had grown well enough to leave the cavern, but the presence of Bright-Nail still gripped in his own  ngers made that seem very unlikely: the blind man would not for a moment allow someone else to have his blade.
When Simon reached Guthwulf, the earl’s skin was cool as river clay.
He did not weep, but his feeling of loss was great. His sorrow was not for Guthwulf the man, who except for these last dreamlike hours or days he had only known as a fearsome  gure, but for himself, left alone once more.
Almost alone. Something bumped against his shin. The cat seemed to be trying to get his attention. It missed its companion, Simon felt sure. Perhaps it thought that somehow he could wake Guthwulf where it had failed.
“Sorry,” he whispered, running his  ngers down its back and gently tugging its tail. “He’s gone somewhere else. I’m lonely, too.”

I admit it's a longshot, but could Simon have been wrong about Guthwulf's death? Maybe Guthwulf felt cold and clammy to the touch because he was sick.

Because who else is going to make a Scrollbearer pendant which is the wrong color?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#20 2017-06-28 00:54:06

Kenan
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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Okay, now tell me this: What are Hakatri's bones and the blood of a dragon for? Where was "Yis-gimli's" body? What are Hugh and his witch bride up to? And who shot JR... I mean, Tanahaya?

IMO Hugh and the Witch are either #1 meant to be a distraction for Simon/mortal men while Utuk'ku puts her plans in motion. If so they haven't distracted so far, but I'm guessing that's about to change. Or #2 it's meant to cause more death between men, since everyone needs to die already. #2 could also just be a lucky consequence of #1. Do we think Utuk'ku actually needs something from the Hernystiri? It's possible. But I don't know what that could be. But could it be about drawing out the Sithi?

Btw where are the Tinukeda'ya of the Grianspog mountains?


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#21 2017-06-28 00:56:55

Kenan
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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

ylvs wrote:

Guthwulf is dead as a doornail in the depths of the Hayholt.

I admit it's a longshot, but could Simon have been wrong about Guthwulf's death? Maybe Guthwulf felt cold and clammy to the touch because he was sick.

I see absolutely no reason to put Guthwulf through more misery. It wouldn't be credible to awaken him, and not necessary.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#22 2017-06-28 00:57:38

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
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Posts: 23103
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

ajl3 wrote:

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Remember the guards that are in Tsoja's room? They're Queen's Teeth, as I recall, not any old guard. Derra seems to think Viyeki's wife called them in, but all they say is "She will be upset." I'm thinking the Queen sent them to hold Derra for [x reasons, involving whatever her plan with Unver is - remember that his sole motivation is finding his sister and he will soon have a massive nation conquering army].

I don't think Unver will attack the Norns; I think Cyan is right that he will try to conquer Nabban instead.

You could be right about Utuk'ku knowing who Derra is, but then why keep her alive at all? The queen does not tolerate dissent, even from her own great-grand-daughter.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#23 2017-06-28 01:06:34

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23103
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Kenan wrote:

IMO Hugh and the Witch are either #1 meant to be a distraction for Simon/mortal men while Utuk'ku puts her plans in motion. If so they haven't distracted so far, but I'm guessing that's about to change. Or #2 it's meant to cause more death between men, since everyone needs to die already. #2 could also just be a lucky consequence of #1. Do we think Utuk'ku actually needs something from the Hernystiri? It's possible. But I don't know what that could be. But could it be about drawing out the Sithi?

Why? The Sithi paid their debt to the Hernystiri by honoring the Fox's Bargain, and coming to the Hernystiri's rescue during the War of the Storm King.

Btw where are the Tinukeda'ya of the Grianspog mountains?

That's a good question. They were last seen near the end of MS&T, saying they were going to go somewhere they would be welcome. We never heard from them again. Two volumes now without mention. I hope Yis-fidri and Yis-hadra are okay.

In fact, as far as I can remember, none of the Tinukeda'ya appear, other than nameless Pengi (which, BTW, new species of Tinukeda'ya), and vague mentions of servants that might or might not be Tinukeda'ya in Nakkiga.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#24 2017-06-28 01:06:50

Kenan
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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8752
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK SPOILERS FOR WHOLE BOOK

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

As for the characters in tWC, we knew they would appear since Tad said so, though personally I was surprised they showed up so soon. I'm not disappointed in finding out their lineage, but I expected something else in Nezeru's case.

So what did you expect in Nezeru's case? Please share, goodly duke.

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not sure what I expected. I wanted her to be a good Norn for other reasons than being of Josua's relation. She still could be, I suppose, but Josua's blood casts a shadow.
Also, you pointed out earlier that Josua wasn't of John Presbyter's blood, but it was still doubly noble, from both Hernystir and Nabban.
Could Nezeru's connection to Hernystir draw her into the trouble there?
What does Nezeru despise? She will find happiness with it according to prophecy.
Where do you think Josua is hiding?


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#25 2017-06-28 01:14:00

Kenan
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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8752
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Re: FINALLY - The Witchwood Crown discussion thread is here

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Why? The Sithi paid their debt to the Hernystiri by honoring the Fox's Bargain, and coming to the Hernystiri's rescue during the War of the Storm King.

Could be several reasons. As nations they still have a "special bond". If things go south in Hernystir the Sithi could come either to rescue, or to punish. Or in Tad's case a more complex combination of both those.

That's a good question. They were last seen near the end of MS&T, saying they were going to go somewhere they would be welcome. We never heard from them again. Two volumes now without mention. I hope Yis-fidri and Yis-hadra are okay.

In fact, as far as I can remember, none of the Tinukeda'ya appear, other than nameless Pengi (which, BTW, new species of Tinukeda'ya), and vague mentions of servants that might or might not be Tinukeda'ya in Nakkiga.

I suppose Nakkiga would welcome them with open arms! But I hope that's not what they meant. Perhaps they didn't even know where they were going themselves.
There are plenty of fringe-areas of Osten Ard we don't know much about, and I suspect that's where we'll find them.

The Tinukeda'ya are such an awesome idea, but I hope Tad won't overuse it and throw too many variants at us.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 
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