Tad Williams' Message Board

Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- 'God damn it, you've got to be kind.'
-    Kurt Vonnegut, 1922-2007

Welcome to the message board for tadwilliams.com. All comments are welcome, whether kudos or brickbats. However, please bear in mind that Tad would like this to be a friendly, civil message board, at least in the relations between users. We reserve the right to remove postings, or even ban postings, from anyone who crosses the boundary of reasonable taste. Basically, you can argue vigorously with someone, but watch your language, okay? We have a lot of young readers as well as grown-ups, so please show them some respect.

But the main requirement here is: have fun.


You are not logged in.

  • Index
  •  » Osten Ard
  •  » Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

#1 2015-10-11 12:32:44

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

(Continued from the "What are you reading" thread).

Ylvs and I were having an excellent discussion about character development in MS&T vs Otherland, and I didn't want to derail that thread, so I decided to move it to its own thread. I don't think it even necessarily has to be limited to a comparison of just two Tad series, thus the title.

I definitely want to respond to Ylvs' great comments:

ylvs wrote:

And as for MST: I hardly see character development for example in Isgrimnur, Josua, Binabik or Eolair.

Sadly, I agree about Isgrimnur, as great as that character is. But I do not agree that Binabik, Josua, or Eolair are static characters, with no growth throughout the series.

When we first meet Binabik, we see him as a wise, all-knowing character: often, he provides the exposition to the reader, as he teaches Simon about the world. But he is an imperfect teacher, as we see he knows almost nothing about the Norns, other than they were some old off-shoot of the Sithi. Despite this, his advice is usually sound, and the reader comes to rely on his explanations and advice as much as Simon does.

This changes greatly in Stone of Farewell, where, during a whole section of the book, Binabik barely speaks. Shamed and embarrassed by his "betrayal" of his people and Sisqi, Binabik withdraws into himself. He doesn't provide any explanations. Simon, Haestan, Sludig and Jiriki must provide their own explanations (and Jiriki seems bored by the whole thing), so it takes a great deal of time to discover what has happened. This major change in how the story is presented is important: no longer do we have Binabik's wise words to guide us: he won't speak.

Eventually, Binabik and Sisqi's rift heals. And Binabik is allowed to continue his journey. But he is forever changed by his return to his mountain home: he now speaks often of Sisqi, and openly (he never mentioned her, even once, in DBC). And although the adventure prevents him from returning home, he obviously greatly looks forward to returning to Mintahoq, to begin his life with her. We see it especially in their scenes together.

Binabik has grown and changed, from a wise shaman's apprentice (sort of a stock character, the "Wise Savage") to a man who is starting a life with his beloved. And he has learned a lot, as evidenced by his ability to talk about the Norns (who previously he knew nothing about). The adventures have shaped him, and although the primary focus of the series is on Simon, it cannot be disputed that Binabik experiences both growth and change.

Josua, too, grows and changes throughout the series. When we first meet him, he is the stock younger brother, mistreated by his elder brother. But at Naglimund, we begin to see his flaws: he keeps a female companion, and although she is treated poorly by the courtiers and embarrassed to be in her position, he is oblivious to her pain.

Elias' destruction of Josua's people at Naglimund changes Josua's resolve. Originally protesting that he wanted nothing to do with ruling, at the end of DBC, Josua raises his manacled fist, and vows to bring Elias down and take over the kingdom.

Later, Josua, after many harrowing adventures through the forest and grasslands, changes his treatment of Vorzheva. They wed, and begin a family. This is growth!

By the end of TGAT, Josua decides the throne is not for him. He decides to remove himself and his family from the possibility of kinghood. He has tested his own leadership, and decided it is not where his talents lie. He is the anti-(book)Aragorn, and after testing his own mettle, he has found himself unworthy. It is refreshing in fantasy literature to see a character struggle to obtain a victory, to win the kingdom, and then, at the end, to realize, "I do not want this."

Peter Jackson's LOTR films give Aragorn depth by having him doubt himself and his leadership abilities. But it is Tad's Josua who more closely resembles Movie Aragorn. But Josua goes a step further than even Movie Aragorn, by making the crucial decision that he just isn't cut out for kinghood. He gives it all up, letting his niece Miriamele (and Simon) take over. Would DBC-era Josua have let Miriamele do anything? He disregarded her constantly. And yet, by the end of the series, he gave it all to her.

Finally, there is Eolair. He starts off as a character skilled in diplomacy. By the end of TGAT, he can no longer hide his mood: sullen and hurt after the death of Maegwin, his diplomatic facade is shattered. This is change, although it's not positive change. JLS even argued this year that Eolair has developed PTSD by the middle of TGAT, and I find that a somewhat brilliant observation, and can't argue against it.


There is character development in Simon, Miri, Jiriki, Tiamak, Sludig, Cadrach like in Orlando, Fredericks, Renie, !Xabbu, Christabel ...

Good that we're agreed about Simon, Miri, Jiriki, Tiamak, Sludig and Cadrach. I'd also add Josua, Eolair, Maegwin, Binabik, Vorzheva, Aditu, Yis-fidri and Yis-hadra, Towser, Guthwulf, Jeremias and maybe Rachel and Hengfisk to the list of dynamic characters.

Edited to add Breda and Sulis to the list of Osten Ardian dynamic characters.

Last edited by Firsfron of Ronchester (2015-10-11 13:13:29)


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#2 2015-10-11 13:01:04

Peter
Pilgrim
From: Austria
Registered: 2001-08-23
Posts: 39215
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

I think it's realistic that the older characters develop less as they have seen more and have a better developed view of the world and themselves. They are also aren't as mentally flexible in most cases.


May the birds who shelter in your branches never poop on the innocent. -Tad

 

#3 2015-10-11 13:03:35

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

Peter wrote:

I think it's realistic that the older characters develop less as they have seen more and have a better developed view of the world and themselves. They are also aren't as mentally flexible in most cases.

That's a good point. Older characters are bound to be less flexible. However, even older characters can change: witness the transformation of Towser, for example.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#4 2015-10-11 13:20:38

Peter
Pilgrim
From: Austria
Registered: 2001-08-23
Posts: 39215
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

That's a good point. Older characters are bound to be less flexible. However, even older characters can change: witness the transformation of Towser, for example.

He has his world totally upended though, more so than Isgrimnur, though he might be expected to change a bit more than he does. I'd have to reread, watching him closely.

The king and Hayholt were Towser's life. Both are taken from him.


May the birds who shelter in your branches never poop on the innocent. -Tad

 

#5 2015-10-11 13:31:52

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

Peter wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

That's a good point. Older characters are bound to be less flexible. However, even older characters can change: witness the transformation of Towser, for example.

He has his world totally upended though, more so than Isgrimnur, though he might be expected to change a bit more than he does. I'd have to reread, watching him closely.

The king and Hayholt were Towser's life. Both are taken from him.

Absolutely.

When Towser begins the story, he's an old man singing to his king. His brain is still sharp, and he obviously observes what's going on around him at that stage in the story.

Towser deftly deduces that Elias's court is behind Josua's sudden disappearance, and he decides to take a stand, singing the "Old King Juniper" song, which implies the older brother has done away with his younger brother. At this point in the book, Towser is sharper than most of the courtiers and servants alike at the Hayholt. He's forced to leave his home of 50+ years.

Towser's difficult journey to Naglimund, and from Naglimund's ruins through the forest take their toll on the old man, and he eventually seems to get dementia. He babbles and mutters, his brain no longer what it was. His journey has damaged his body and mind, and those ravages have changed his character.

We are used to seeing character development in terms of younger characters developing, as their experiences help them grow and change and develop. But the same experiences can bring an older character to change as well, only regressing instead of progressing.

Tad brilliantly includes characters of all ages and backgrounds in MS&T, giving them depth and changing many of them as the story goes along. And it's not just the young ones, although that is the focus.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#6 2015-10-11 19:37:49

gopher
Pilgrim
Registered: 2015-02-15
Posts: 28

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

I liked the fact that Simon didn't morph into a powerful sorcerer or discover some latent magical ability. His change was totally 'human' in learning/experiencing and making choices, sometimes bad ones. And as for Miriamele, it was nice to see someone who may not have been the central hero character, but was smarter than him and wasn't a stock damsel in distress just waiting to be rescued locked up in a...tower...uh...oh.

Hmm.

Well, you know what I mean. And aside from characterization, the best part I thought of MS&T was that Tad seems to understand a little magic goes a long way. No one is casting a spell or being turned into a newt every other page, where the magic becomes so commonplace that there's nothing 'magical' about it. Still mysterious and cool.

My $0.02

 

#7 2015-10-11 19:57:59

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

gopher wrote:

I liked the fact that Simon didn't morph into a powerful sorcerer or discover some latent magical ability. His change was totally 'human' in learning/experiencing and making choices, sometimes bad ones.

Yes. When I first read MS&T, I expected Simon to eventually take Morgenes' place. As his apprentice, this is what I expected. But he never became a magician, and indeed never even took Morgenes' place as a Scrollbearer.

And as for Miriamele, it was nice to see someone who may not have been the central hero character, but was smarter than him and wasn't a stock damsel in distress just waiting to be rescued locked up in a...tower...uh...oh.

Hmm.

Well, she certainly starts off as a princess locked up in a tower, but she chooses another destiny. And indeed, by the end, it is her bowman (bowwoman?) skills which end the series.

Well, you know what I mean. And aside from characterization, the best part I thought of MS&T was that Tad seems to understand a little magic goes a long way. No one is casting a spell or being turned into a newt every other page, where the magic becomes so commonplace that there's nothing 'magical' about it. Still mysterious and cool.

My $0.02

Yes, yes and yes. Tad wisely chose to have a low-magic world, where only a few of the very wise have any magical ability. And the Gardenborn, of course.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#8 2015-10-12 00:01:47

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

This by this way is where the discussion started and it used to be about Otherland. But now it mysteriously is about MST. Like everything ...


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#9 2015-10-12 01:43:34

Peter
Pilgrim
From: Austria
Registered: 2001-08-23
Posts: 39215
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

I am only one book into my Otherland reread (thanks again, Ylvs!), so it's going to be half a year before I can comment on that.

I don't think the character development in Shadowmarch is as strong as in MS&T. The time frame is probably shorter, so they have less time to develop, but Briony seems to start off with good intentions but no luck and little ability and ends the same way. There is a good amount of development on Barrick, on Chaven (though it may be more uncovering than development), but not so much on Vansen.

I don't think I'll ever reread to verify.


May the birds who shelter in your branches never poop on the innocent. -Tad

 

#10 2015-10-12 03:55:36

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

I agree, Peter. Although I consider a reread because I think I did not give it the attention it deserved the first time ... And I am looking forward to your opinion on Otherland characters next year.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#11 2015-10-12 10:40:38

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

ylvs wrote:

This by this way is where the discussion started and it used to be about Otherland. But now it mysteriously is about MST. Like everything ...

I hadn't really had a chance to talk about Otherland, yet. I've only read Otherland about four times, so I'm in somewhat murky water.

Otherland is a brilliant series whose final book, to me, disappoints. The ending just smacks too much of MST3K for my liking, and I think I only realized that during my last re-read. And I expected a lot more character development in Book Four, which didn't happen.

I do think, as you said Ylvs, there is character development in Renie, !Xabbu, Sam and Orlando. Lots and lots of development. You added Christabel, Sellars, Olga, Catur Ramsey, and the female cop. I don't really remember much character development with Sellars, just (finally!) some background details.

I did think of another character who experiences growth and change: Long Joseph.

Anyone else?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#12 2015-10-12 10:53:23

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

Peter wrote:

I don't think the character development in Shadowmarch is as strong as in MS&T.

I agree.

The time frame is probably shorter, so they have less time to develop, but Briony seems to start off with good intentions but no luck and little ability and ends the same way. There is a good amount of development on Barrick, on Chaven (though it may be more uncovering than development), but not so much on Vansen.

I don't think I'll ever reread to verify.

At some point, I hope to re-read Shadowmarch, in part because I read the volumes about two years apart, and that's a less than ideal way to read a series ("There's a talking bird? Ooh, wait, yes, of course there's a talking bird. Forgot all about him!")

Since I've only read Shadowmarch once, I'm on extremely murky ground. But I do remember character development, as you said, with Barrick and Chaven, and also on Qinnitan and... eh... Chert's adopted son, whose name I can't remember. Anyone else?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#13 2015-10-12 11:15:38

Peter
Pilgrim
From: Austria
Registered: 2001-08-23
Posts: 39215
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

Early on you have a rather dramatic development on Martine, who starts out super-competent (being the guiding figure) and then turns into a problem for the group, since she is disabled by the sheer amount of information delivered by the network.

Off-topic: Taking away or changing the guiding character, the one who knows the most, is very common in Tad's work.


May the birds who shelter in your branches never poop on the innocent. -Tad

 

#14 2015-10-12 12:30:40

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8757
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

Peter wrote:

Off-topic: Taking away or changing the guiding character, the one who knows the most, is very common in Tad's work.

An interesting observation, Peter!

I don't know, in MST there are so many guides to Simon though. And at least one is constant until Simon is old enough to strike out on his own... kind of.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#15 2015-10-12 12:36:25

Peter
Pilgrim
From: Austria
Registered: 2001-08-23
Posts: 39215
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

*MS&T spoilers*
*everything here is a spoiler anyway*
*MS&T spoilers*
*everything here is a spoiler anyway*
*MS&T spoilers*

In MS&T you start out with Morgenes as the wise man. Binabik takes the role for most of the rest of the series (with Geloe and Jarnauga helping out), but he's separated from the main character, spends time depressed at the bottom of a stone pit and sometimes he's just as clueless as Simon and the readers.


May the birds who shelter in your branches never poop on the innocent. -Tad

 

#16 2015-10-12 12:39:01

Peter
Pilgrim
From: Austria
Registered: 2001-08-23
Posts: 39215
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

Otherland has Sellars, but he's not around much and Martine, who loses access to the (normal) net and thus a lot of her power. I think there may be more (Kunohara?), but I am just starting on book 2 and my memory of book 3 and 4 is very hazy.

Shadowmarch features a variety of knowledgable types (Olin, Shaso, Chaven, various Qar), but none of them have a lot of screen time or get to spend a lot of time with the viewpoint characters as far as I can remember.


May the birds who shelter in your branches never poop on the innocent. -Tad

 

#17 2015-10-12 15:19:49

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

How could I forget Martine? And Paul for Dog's sake! And don't give me Paul is just a copy anyone.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#18 2015-10-12 15:21:39

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

And Firs? Maybe you should put *spoilertastic* in the header ...


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#19 2015-10-12 15:59:42

xavie
Pilgrim
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2006-01-22
Posts: 1566
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

SPOILERS FOR MS&T and OTHERLAND

I think that "loosing knowledgable people" is a major theme in MS&T. It starts with Morgenes and Oqequk (however you spell that), then Jarnauga, Dinivan, Ranessin, Amerasu and then even Geloe. The scene that shows this best is probably when Amerasu gathers all the Sithi and tells them: "I finally figured out what Ineluki and Utukku want, I'm the only one who knows this and I'm telling you now. It's... urks krg ghhr!" - dead.
Then there are the people who have important knowledge, but are not at liberty (or not able or willing) to share it. Let's name them All the Sithi, Cadrach, Camaris and the old chester what's-his-name.
Those who are left as the wise ones are really struggling: Tiamac, Binabik and Strangyard. Their strength lies in being able to interpret manuscripts, not in their experience. So for the largest part of the series everyone is more or less stumbling in darkness.
Actually the real figuring-out of what Ineluki, Pryrates and Elias are planning is done by Simon and Miriamele in the end.


In Otherland it's mainly Sellars who's knowledgable and scheeming, and he's mostly not available to the group of adventurers. Actually, his attempts at communicating with them reminded me strongly of Simon's dreams of burned Morgenes, croaking "beware... the false messenger!" - A nice attempt but eventually uneffective.
Bolivar Atasco basically pulls an Amerasu in Otherland: "I've gathered you all here to tell you something super important. You have a secret mission and that is ... urks grr argh!"
And yes, there's Kunohara who falls into the knows-but-won't-tell category.
In general, there's less wise people in Otherland than in MS&T. I actually think that (almost) all adventurers come with specific knowledge and experience that they need to combine. Unlike in MS&T there's also a big portion of bad-guy-explains-his-evil-plan towards the end of the books as well as Sellars a.k.a. Dumbledore explaining himself. I currently can't remember how the big question of "what do they do to the children?" is actually answered - if the adventurers figured that out by themselves or if it was told to them.

Anyway, I also wanted to say something about character development, but it's midnight and I'm tired, so I'm not doing that now.

 

#20 2015-10-12 16:08:42

Peter
Pilgrim
From: Austria
Registered: 2001-08-23
Posts: 39215
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

I'm not sure the Atascos actually had that much to tell. The telling should have been done by Sellars, but he had to run before he could finish.


May the birds who shelter in your branches never poop on the innocent. -Tad

 

#21 2015-10-12 16:40:07

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

Peter wrote:

*MS&T spoilers*
*everything here is a spoiler anyway*
*MS&T spoilers*
*everything here is a spoiler anyway*
*MS&T spoilers*

In MS&T you start out with Morgenes as the wise man. Binabik takes the role for most of the rest of the series (with Geloe and Jarnauga helping out), but he's separated from the main character, spends time depressed at the bottom of a stone pit and sometimes he's just as clueless as Simon and the readers.

Good points, Peter and Kenan. And that section in the beginning of SOF where Binabik is at the bottom of the pit, Simon realizes how lost he is. And I think the reader feels lost as well.

Let's not forget Cadrach's spot as Miriamele's "wise one", from their journey together at Naglimund, down to Ansis Pelippe, Nabban, Kwanitupul, the Wran, up through the the meadows, all the way up to his disappearance near Sesu'adra. Cadrach plays that same vital role for Miriamele that Morgenes/Binabik do for Simon: answering questions.

Later, Geloe and Aditu fill in for this role at Sesu'adra.

And in the west, Eolair and Maegwin's storyline gets this, to some extent, with Yis-fidri and Yis-hadra. Though to a much lesser extent than the more obvious Simon/Morgy, Simon/Binabik, Josua/Geloe, Simon/Aditu/Jiriki, and Miri/Cadrach pairings.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#22 2015-10-12 16:41:29

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

ylvs wrote:

And Firs? Maybe you should put *spoilertastic* in the header ...

Done and done! :) But you know you could add it, too, right? With your mighty Mantiiiiiiii power?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#23 2015-10-12 16:51:12

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

ylvs wrote:

How could I forget Martine? And Paul for Dog's sake! And don't give me Paul is just a copy anyone.

But Paul's a copy, see, so any change he experiences doesn't count, because... ;)


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#24 2015-10-12 22:19:04

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8757
Website

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

So Tad, what do you have against old, wise, people, huh? Seriously...

And btw, Paul was just a copy.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#25 2015-10-12 23:49:23

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

Dukes, beware! You are treading on thin ice here.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 
  • Index
  •  » Osten Ard
  •  » Character development in MS&T vs other Tad series *major spoilers*

Board footer

Powered by PunBB