Tad Williams' Message Board

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#1 2015-03-21 23:39:50

raziel101
Pilgrim
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2015-03-21
Posts: 2

The Black and White Oceans

What is the significance of these places? I've been scouring over through the chapters but I've been unable to find any dialogue that gives me any idea what these places are supposed to be.

From what I understood, the inhabitants of Otherland created by the Other traveled across the Black Ocean into Otherland seeking the White Ocean.

Would love some insight on this :)

 

#2 2015-03-22 01:38:56

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: The Black and White Oceans

Reminds me of MS&T, with the Gardenborn crossing a great black ocean.


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#3 2015-03-22 02:43:50

Kenan
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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8752
Website

Re: The Black and White Oceans

Welcome to the boards Raziel.

I think this is just Tad's magic touch creating a mysterious people/journey/mythology to make your mind spin and want to know more. I suppose it's also a way to give non-essential characters a purpose beyond being there for the main characters.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#4 2015-03-22 12:54:51

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: The Black and White Oceans

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Reminds me of MS&T, with the Gardenborn crossing a great black ocean.

Is there anything that does notremind you of MST, Firs?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!


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#5 2015-03-22 13:00:21

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: The Black and White Oceans

Welcome to the boards Azriel!

I could not believe it but my search turned nothing up on the question of the oceans. Astonishing.

Here are my two cents:

To me the oceans are metaphors to the way in and out of Otherland. As the entrace is guarded by the Other and peeps are even killed when trying to enter (remember Blue dog Anchorite from Treehouse) this barrier is like a black stormy sea you have to cross. The white ocean (aka Sea of Silver Light) is what the lost souls are looking for in order to find their way out again.

I might be completely wrong though. Let's hope Tad sees this and still remembers ...


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
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#6 2015-03-22 20:11:17

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23106
Website

Re: The Black and White Oceans

ylvs wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Reminds me of MS&T, with the Gardenborn crossing a great black ocean.

Is there anything that does notremind you of MST, Firs?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!

Very few things, admittedly. But how can I walk through a field of blue butterflies, or talk to people in faraway places via a flat glass-fronted object, or talk about people crossing mysterious black oceans... and not think of MS&T?

ylvs wrote:

Welcome to the boards Azriel!

Pssst... Azrael's your cat. This is Raziel. ;)


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
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Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#7 2015-03-23 02:57:11

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13269

Re: The Black and White Oceans

Raziel, I apologize.

*grins sheepishly*


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#8 2015-03-23 16:56:10

Auros
Pilgrim
From: San Mateo, CA
Registered: 2001-11-23
Posts: 7594
Website

Re: The Black and White Oceans

The Black and White Oceans only existed until we developed color film, at which point they started to be all kinds of shades of blue, green, gray, even stuff like orange or pink under a good sunset.


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#9 2015-03-30 19:20:20

raziel101
Pilgrim
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2015-03-21
Posts: 2

Re: The Black and White Oceans

ylvs wrote:

Welcome to the boards Azriel!

I could not believe it but my search turned nothing up on the question of the oceans. Astonishing.

Here are my two cents:

To me the oceans are metaphors to the way in and out of Otherland. As the entrace is guarded by the Other and peeps are even killed when trying to enter (remember Blue dog Anchorite from Treehouse) this barrier is like a black stormy sea you have to cross. The white ocean (aka Sea of Silver Light) is what the lost souls are looking for in order to find their way out again.

I might be completely wrong though. Let's hope Tad sees this and still remembers ...

My thanks to everyone for responding.

ylvs, I agree with you about it being a metaphor. Unfortunately, I'm one of those that desire some explanation, and while Tad covered everything else that I wanted to know in the book (although I may take that back since I am going through my 5th read and it's been a few years since I last took on this series), I never received closure on this subject. Hopefully he will check in on this forum in the near future :)

With regards to your two cents, I wonder why you felt the lost souls would want to return back to wherever they came from? I may be writing this based on an incomplete recollection of what I recall reading, but take for example Gally and the Ostyerhouse boys (and girl). I recall they were created by the Other, probably based off of a story he heard or a serious of individual children he observed on the net. While I can't remember if they were created within Otherland or outside of it, they speak of how they crossed into their current realm (The Four Squared) across the Black Ocean. And I'm pretty sure he mentioned in his version as Gally (or perhaps the other version Paul encountered) that he was looking to cross the White Ocean. I just don't understand how returning to the Black Ocean would be the same as returning to the White Ocean especially since they use both terms in the same sentance. I always imagined them to be two unique places - just not sure what places they are and where they are.

And I have to throw it out there - rereading the novels on my iPad for the first time (never really thought about reading this book on a pad much like what Renie does when I first read CoGS back in 1996 as a kid).

:)

Last edited by raziel101 (2015-03-30 19:23:42)

 

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