Tad Williams' Message Board

Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- 'God damn it, you've got to be kind.'
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Welcome to the message board for tadwilliams.com. All comments are welcome, whether kudos or brickbats. However, please bear in mind that Tad would like this to be a friendly, civil message board, at least in the relations between users. We reserve the right to remove postings, or even ban postings, from anyone who crosses the boundary of reasonable taste. Basically, you can argue vigorously with someone, but watch your language, okay? We have a lot of young readers as well as grown-ups, so please show them some respect.

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#1 2014-05-30 13:57:58

Olaf
Mantis
From: Germany
Registered: 2001-07-16
Posts: 4908
Website

New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

The Bobby Dollar books are getting a new look in the US and so far we only saw some glimpses of preliminary artwork in the new Daw online catalog, but now we have the first bigger and clearer look at the new cover of HAPPY HOUR IN HELL.

http://images.penguingroup.com/Covers/4 … 09487M.jpg



This is the preliminary artwork for Bobby 3: Sleeping Late on Judgment Day.
http://www.risingshadow.net/library_lin … mp;w=large


Scrollbearer

Writing books, especially long books, is a careful balance between laziness and masochism.
Tad Williams

 

#2 2014-05-30 17:41:57

Seitherin
Mantis
From: Texas, near Houston
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 8045
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Ick. What awful covers. If I weren't already committed to the books these covers would put me off them.


"The evil done by men of goodwill is the worst of all." Iain Pears, The Dream of Scipio

"Where all think alike, no one thinks very much." Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

So, I've got a blog . . . Now what? | A Stitch in Time | The Name Nook

 

#3 2014-05-30 17:59:16

Ad1tu
Pilgrim
From: Buffysadharc
Registered: 2004-02-22
Posts: 6339

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Yeah. Very blah. How can it be a Bobby Dollar book and NOT have him on the cover?


If you should do what makes you happy, and no one can tell you what makes you happy, then that means no one can tell you what to do!

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#4 2014-05-30 20:35:52

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23130
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

So they're just designing covers in Microsoft Paint, now.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
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Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#5 2014-05-30 23:33:37

Olaf
Mantis
From: Germany
Registered: 2001-07-16
Posts: 4908
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Well, I hope that this is one of those covers that does not reproduce well in a jpg. format:-)


Scrollbearer

Writing books, especially long books, is a careful balance between laziness and masochism.
Tad Williams

 

#6 2014-05-31 06:37:29

Seitherin
Mantis
From: Texas, near Houston
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 8045
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

It's not a reproduction problem, but a concept problem. The concept is uninspired.


"The evil done by men of goodwill is the worst of all." Iain Pears, The Dream of Scipio

"Where all think alike, no one thinks very much." Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

So, I've got a blog . . . Now what? | A Stitch in Time | The Name Nook

 

#7 2014-05-31 06:46:46

Neemo
Pilgrim
From: Hamilton, ON, CA
Registered: 2005-03-28
Posts: 921
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Hmm... not impressed.... maybe I will get UK covers up here in Canada?

 

#8 2014-06-13 09:18:31

Olaf
Mantis
From: Germany
Registered: 2001-07-16
Posts: 4908
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books


Scrollbearer

Writing books, especially long books, is a careful balance between laziness and masochism.
Tad Williams

 

#9 2014-06-13 09:51:29

Peter
Pilgrim
From: Austria
Registered: 2001-08-23
Posts: 39226
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Well, that's not nearly as bad as the other one. Not great, but at least they didn't use the cheapest font on the planet.

The only truly good thing is, that the halo goes nicely with Tad's introduction in Stuttgart:

Bobby Dollar and I are pretty similiar, we are both chosen by god.
(Does somebody remember the exact phrase? Magpie started taping it a second too late to catch that.)


May the birds who shelter in your branches never poop on the innocent. -Tad

 

#10 2014-06-13 13:03:07

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23130
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Ugh! To me, that's worse. Four different fonts on that cover... isn't that font abuse?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#11 2014-06-13 13:08:57

Olaf
Mantis
From: Germany
Registered: 2001-07-16
Posts: 4908
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

isn't that font abuse?

Bhwahhhhahhaaaahhhhha!


Scrollbearer

Writing books, especially long books, is a careful balance between laziness and masochism.
Tad Williams

 

#12 2014-06-17 00:59:11

Olaf
Mantis
From: Germany
Registered: 2001-07-16
Posts: 4908
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Lisa posted the new US covers on the site:

http://www.tadwilliams.com/2014/06/cove … ement-day/

I donĀ“t know the reasoning behind the new art (I thought the old jackets were totally fine), but if you are doing new art then make it consistent. Book three does not match the new artwork for books 1 & 2. So, what is the point?

I think the new artwork is somewhat underwhelming. For once, I think the UK covers are better!


Scrollbearer

Writing books, especially long books, is a careful balance between laziness and masochism.
Tad Williams

 

#13 2014-06-17 01:09:26

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13279

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

I really wish I had gone for the British editions in the first place. They're at least consistent over teh series and the last one is just beautiful ...


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#14 2014-06-17 01:11:11

Olaf
Mantis
From: Germany
Registered: 2001-07-16
Posts: 4908
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

They are still available:-)


Scrollbearer

Writing books, especially long books, is a careful balance between laziness and masochism.
Tad Williams

 

#15 2014-06-17 03:03:45

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13279

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Hahaha. Prolly not first editions anymore .... aaaaaaand I DO NOT COLLECT TADBOOKS.

[whispers] I just happen to have quite a few ...


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#16 2014-06-17 03:54:59

Peter
Pilgrim
From: Austria
Registered: 2001-08-23
Posts: 39226
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

And it's still the cheapeast, tackiest cover of any Tad book ever.
That font. That font colour. My eyes.


May the birds who shelter in your branches never poop on the innocent. -Tad

 

#17 2014-06-17 08:39:49

Seitherin
Mantis
From: Texas, near Houston
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 8045
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

They look so cheap. I could do a better cover with MS Paint and clip art. Should we start a write in campaign to the publisher expressing our displeasure?


"The evil done by men of goodwill is the worst of all." Iain Pears, The Dream of Scipio

"Where all think alike, no one thinks very much." Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

So, I've got a blog . . . Now what? | A Stitch in Time | The Name Nook

 

#18 2014-06-17 08:54:53

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8763
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Now this is more like it.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#19 2014-06-17 09:25:36

Olaf
Mantis
From: Germany
Registered: 2001-07-16
Posts: 4908
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Yes, I must say that I prefer the UK covers to the US covers for all the Bobby Dollar books.


Scrollbearer

Writing books, especially long books, is a careful balance between laziness and masochism.
Tad Williams

 

#20 2014-06-17 09:47:48

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23130
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Kenan wrote:

Now this is more like it.

Hey, that's just a combination of volumes 1 and 2! (Actually, pretty clever design).

Seitherin wrote:

They look so cheap. I could do a better cover with MS Paint and clip art.

I think DAW must have had a sixth-grade competition to design those covers. And is it just me, or does the text on Sleeping Late look like it's not even centered? I understand they might have cut off a small portion of the cover where the spine would be, but accounting for that, it still looks off-balance.

Why is there no halo? It seemed like that was part of the theme. Now the only 'themes' are the mismatched MS Paint fonts.

Should we start a write in campaign to the publisher expressing our displeasure?

Yes, please. Do we want to send a standard letter, or just each submit our own?

The only positive things I can say about #2 and #3 are that the red will stick out to the human eye, and attract some attention. (But if your design is that bad, is that really a good thing?). I remember seeing Mountain of Black Glass at the gigantic Phoenix Borders Books in 1999, and that great mountain of red books was visible from anywhere in the store.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#21 2014-06-17 11:47:25

strangeshe
Hierarch
From: Texas
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 11555

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

And is it just me, or does the text on Sleeping Late look like it's not even centered? I understand they might have cut off a small portion of the cover where the spine would be, but accounting for that, it still looks off-balance.

Nope, they're off balance. (So are the first two, but less noticeable for some reason.) You can tell most easily by measuring space to left and right of "WILLIAMS" (the widest element) and it's not centered. All the other elements center on that, so the whole is off. The PDF of the full cover press sheet (here http://www.tadwilliams.com/wp-content/u … nt-Day.pdf) shows that it's not about cropping for press.

I'm not crazy about the designs either. Agree with comments made here already -- the design does look cheap and amateurish. Seems like the "big idea" for the design had to do with how they'd treat Tad's name -- it's the one unchanging element across all three -- size, font, placement; color & fx like outline change but rest remains same. And to get the line length of the 3 letters in "TAD" even close to that for "WILLIAMS" 8 letters, it unfortunately makes "TAD" scream off the cover. Bad balance right from the get-go with the design's starting point. It devolves from there.

I believe they're going for a more "mainstream" look, but apparently their designer doesn't really know what mainstream designs look like.

I feel awful criticizing because I have no idea who was involved with the design. Or whether T&D like it or had input or what.  And nobody asked /me/. ;)


I did manage, however, to pull together some nice looking headers from these covers to use on the book pages on the site. The first is on the cover reveal post (http://www.tadwilliams.com/2014/06/cove … ement-day/); the other two will go up soon -- I'm still pulling the page revisions together.

 

#22 2014-06-17 12:04:13

Peter
Pilgrim
From: Austria
Registered: 2001-08-23
Posts: 39226
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

I'm not crazy about the new covers for the first two books, but they don't look like they were done in MS paint at least. I liked the old covers better, but I don't think they really capture the feel of the books either.


May the birds who shelter in your branches never poop on the innocent. -Tad

 

#23 2014-06-17 12:20:07

Auros
Pilgrim
From: San Mateo, CA
Registered: 2001-11-23
Posts: 7594
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

I quite like the first two US covers...  I don't think I like any of what I've seen here as much, and the newly announced ones are kind of terrible.


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#24 2014-06-17 15:01:26

Seitherin
Mantis
From: Texas, near Houston
Registered: 2001-06-01
Posts: 8045
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

I expressed my dissatisfaction with the covers on Daw's Facebook post announcing the new covers. I challenge all you others on FB to voice your displeasure as well.


"The evil done by men of goodwill is the worst of all." Iain Pears, The Dream of Scipio

"Where all think alike, no one thinks very much." Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

So, I've got a blog . . . Now what? | A Stitch in Time | The Name Nook

 

#25 2014-06-17 15:17:49

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8763
Website

Re: New US Bobby Dollar artwork from Daw Books

Seitherin wrote:

I expressed my dissatisfaction with the covers on Daw's Facebook post announcing the new covers. I challenge all you others on FB to voice your displeasure as well.

Thanks for the tip! I added mine.


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

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