Tad Williams' Message Board

Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- 'God damn it, you've got to be kind.'
-    Kurt Vonnegut, 1922-2007

Welcome to the message board for tadwilliams.com. All comments are welcome, whether kudos or brickbats. However, please bear in mind that Tad would like this to be a friendly, civil message board, at least in the relations between users. We reserve the right to remove postings, or even ban postings, from anyone who crosses the boundary of reasonable taste. Basically, you can argue vigorously with someone, but watch your language, okay? We have a lot of young readers as well as grown-ups, so please show them some respect.

But the main requirement here is: have fun.


You are not logged in.

#1 2013-02-28 15:32:54

Xie
Pilgrim
Registered: 2013-02-27
Posts: 20

Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

I re-read the series recently and still have a question. What exactly is in the 4th black tank in Jongleur's penultimate floor residence?

I have an idea seeing as it says Horus and blastocyst, but why would that need its own adult size tank? I recall only one mention of the tank other than Olga looking at it, which was Jongleur glancing at it and then not wanting to dwell on such unpleasant thoughts. Is that because it is indeed where he ended up storing the blastocyst clone taken from Ava, and so reminds him of her? If so that seems an odd place to store an essentially canned project, so close to his own tank. Or perhaps that was the ideal spot for it in case he had to abandon the Grail project?

 

#2 2013-02-28 16:09:29

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13257

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

I know that the answer is somewhere in my brain ... can't get it out at the moment, though ...

And welcome to the board, Xie!


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#3 2013-02-28 16:11:00

Xie
Pilgrim
Registered: 2013-02-27
Posts: 20

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

Thanks, ylvs!

 

#4 2013-03-01 23:01:47

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13257

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

SERIOUS OTHERLAND ENDING SPOILERS BEWARE SERIOUS OTHERLAND ENDING SPOILERS BEWARE SERIOUS OTHERLAND ENDING SPOILERS BEWARE SERIOUS OTHERLAND ENDING SPOILERS BEWARE


I asked Tad on fb and he said that he does not remember ("it's been twenty years since I wrote that")  but if he finds sometime to skip through the book he will ... so you might get a waterproof answer after all.

What just dropped out of my tiny brain (must have worked during the night) is this: the four tanks = Jongleur, Finch & Mullet and wasn't the last Paul Jonas?

Xie, you could also check the old threads here, I bet this was discussed back in 2001 ... go to the search function.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#5 2013-03-02 00:31:56

Xie
Pilgrim
Registered: 2013-02-27
Posts: 20

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

ylvs wrote:

SERIOUS OTHERLAND ENDING SPOILERS BEWARE SERIOUS OTHERLAND ENDING SPOILERS BEWARE SERIOUS OTHERLAND ENDING SPOILERS BEWARE SERIOUS OTHERLAND ENDING SPOILERS BEWARE


I asked Tad on fb and he said that he does not remember ("it's been twenty years since I wrote that")  but if he finds sometime to skip through the book he will ... so you might get a waterproof answer after all.

What just dropped out of my tiny brain (must have worked during the night) is this: the four tanks = Jongleur, Finch & Mullet and wasn't the last Paul Jonas?

Xie, you could also check the old threads here, I bet this was discussed back in 2001 ... go to the search function.

ooh, thank you thank you!  Haha, yeah, it has been a while.  Thanks for thinking of my question overnight - though I believe Paul's body was being held at Telemorphix, Robert Wells' company.  I can't imagine Jongleur with his contempt for Paul would have placed him permanently so close to his own tank?

Yeah, I did search for Jongleur tank and Felix tank and a couple others I can't recall.  But I didn't find anything about the tanks themselves (prompting me to finally sign up to the forum and make a thread, haha).  Though maybe the results could be different now that I'm a member?

/me trots off to search again!

 

#6 2013-03-02 01:21:34

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13257

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

Oh Xie, you're right. Paul is elsewhere ...

HEY SMARCHERS! SUGGESTIONS?


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#7 2013-03-02 01:27:17

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

I don't have anything to add... I'm still reeling from Magpie's very intutive comment at the beginning of the Otherland re-read thread.


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

Scrollbearer
Proud Member of the Log Brigade

 

#8 2013-03-02 03:32:51

Genisis X
Pilgrim
From: permanent existential crisis
Registered: 2005-05-08
Posts: 15088

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

I'm of no help. I only got up to book two before I stopped, so I didn't get to the end. In fact, I haven't finished the Shadowmarch series either... Although I probably should finish that one because I recall i liked it...

War of the Flowers, however, is one of the most awesome reads ever.

That is all.

-X


I was going to do more things, but I'm staring uselessly at my computer again...
-Magpie

 

#9 2013-03-02 04:38:26

Magpie
Mantis
From: miraculously thistle-free town
Registered: 2006-03-27
Posts: 32639
Website

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

cyan wrote:

I don't have anything to add... I'm still reeling from Magpie's very intutive comment at the beginning of the Otherland re-read thread.

Really? I made a comment that makes people reel?
*goes to search for that comment*


Basically, I'm Prince Josua in jeans and sneakers, or a different flavor of Renie Sulaweyo.
- Tad

Master of Gardening, Mistress of Kingdom Plantae, Defender of the Seedlings, Guardian of Root and Bough
Scrollbearer and offerer of some very useful opinions

 

#10 2013-03-02 12:35:10

laDuchesse
Pilgrim
From: Ylvsfield / Dreamcountry
Registered: 2013-02-20
Posts: 275

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

Genisis X wrote:

I'm of no help. I only got up to book two before I stopped, so I didn't get to the end. In fact, I haven't finished the Shadowmarch series either... Although I probably should finish that one because I recall i liked it...

War of the Flowers, however, is one of the most awesome reads ever.

That is all.

-X

Ok, Gen I won't disagree (have not read War of the Flowers for much too long)
But here is the Gretchen question: Did you finish MST?


I think Smarch might have a higher-than-average percentage of introverts.  It's probably what makes us so awesome. Magpie

 

#11 2013-03-02 14:29:17

Kenan
Pilgrim
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Registered: 2005-06-19
Posts: 8741
Website

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

Otherland beats Shadowmarch IMHO, and I really like fantasy better than sci fi, though Otherland kind of defies such a distinction. I doubt I'll re-read smarch, but never say never...

I've read MST umpteen times, but Otherland only twice... so I don't know who is in the fourth tank. My first thought was Jonas, but I guess the Ava clone is more likely. But still that doesn't sound quite right to me. I was thinking of some sort of clone of Jongleur himself, some failed experiment. Wasn't there something...?


Wouldn't the plural form of Olaf be Olaves? ;) - Firsfron of Ronchester

 

#12 2013-03-02 15:26:00

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23099
Website

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

Kenan wrote:

Otherland beats Shadowmarch IMHO, and I really like fantasy better than sci fi, though Otherland kind of defies such a distinction. I doubt I'll re-read smarch, but never say never...

I've read MST umpteen times, but Otherland only twice... so I don't know who is in the fourth tank. My first thought was Jonas, but I guess the Ava clone is more likely. But still that doesn't sound quite right to me. I was thinking of some sort of clone of Jongleur himself, some failed experiment. Wasn't there something...?

After re-reading this passage today, then checking TV Tropes' Otherland characters page, my bet would be the Avialle clone(s). The casket reads Project: Ushabti. The Ushabti "were servant figures that carried out the tasks required of the deceased in the underworld [...]the figurine "answered" for the deceased person".

The sign also indicates that there are three blastocysts in the casket (Blastocysts 1.0, 2.0, 2.1) and "Horus 1.0", whatever that is.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#13 2013-03-02 16:47:29

Xie
Pilgrim
Registered: 2013-02-27
Posts: 20

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Kenan wrote:

Otherland beats Shadowmarch IMHO, and I really like fantasy better than sci fi, though Otherland kind of defies such a distinction. I doubt I'll re-read smarch, but never say never...

I've read MST umpteen times, but Otherland only twice... so I don't know who is in the fourth tank. My first thought was Jonas, but I guess the Ava clone is more likely. But still that doesn't sound quite right to me. I was thinking of some sort of clone of Jongleur himself, some failed experiment. Wasn't there something...?

After re-reading this passage today, then checking TV Tropes' Otherland characters page, my bet would be the Avialle clone(s). The casket reads Project: Ushabti. The Ushabti "were servant figures that carried out the tasks required of the deceased in the underworld [...]the figurine "answered" for the deceased person".

The sign also indicates that there are three blastocysts in the casket (Blastocysts 1.0, 2.0, 2.1) and "Horus 1.0", whatever that is.

Ah, true!  I didn't really register that there were 3 version numbers :).  Horus... Hor-sa-iset, if I recall correctly is the 'child of the king' ie Jongleur's actual heir?  So the child Ava had?  I think Jongleur does explain Horus at one point but I can't recall where...  And Ushabti I think was the name for Jongleur's daughter-grandson clone project for immortality that was abandoned when the Grail project started to show more promise.

 

#14 2015-04-09 20:09:50

geoffw35
Pilgrim
From: Bellevue
Registered: 2006-06-30
Posts: 107

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

Xie wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Kenan wrote:

Otherland beats Shadowmarch IMHO, and I really like fantasy better than sci fi, though Otherland kind of defies such a distinction. I doubt I'll re-read smarch, but never say never...

I've read MST umpteen times, but Otherland only twice... so I don't know who is in the fourth tank. My first thought was Jonas, but I guess the Ava clone is more likely. But still that doesn't sound quite right to me. I was thinking of some sort of clone of Jongleur himself, some failed experiment. Wasn't there something...?

After re-reading this passage today, then checking TV Tropes' Otherland characters page, my bet would be the Avialle clone(s). The casket reads Project: Ushabti. The Ushabti "were servant figures that carried out the tasks required of the deceased in the underworld [...]the figurine "answered" for the deceased person".

The sign also indicates that there are three blastocysts in the casket (Blastocysts 1.0, 2.0, 2.1) and "Horus 1.0", whatever that is.

Ah, true!  I didn't really register that there were 3 version numbers :).  Horus... Hor-sa-iset, if I recall correctly is the 'child of the king' ie Jongleur's actual heir?  So the child Ava had?  I think Jongleur does explain Horus at one point but I can't recall where...  And Ushabti I think was the name for Jongleur's daughter-grandson clone project for immortality that was abandoned when the Grail project started to show more promise.

I just finished the series again. It is indeed Horus, the embryo of the son who he wanted to inherit his legacy (and the clone that was taken out of Avialle) when he still thought that the ushabti project was the only viable one.

Geoff

 

#15 2015-04-10 14:09:16

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23099
Website

Re: Question about Jongleur (spoilerish)

Thanks Geoff. Mystery solved!


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB