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#1 2013-01-31 15:40:47

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Tourist map of San Judas

To all Bay Area dwellers who read The Dirty Streets of Heaven:

I'll be visiting SF in march and would very much like to do a tour around San Judas. So could you please point out locations that might be blueprints to San Judas places like Five Page Mill, Orban's dock or the Riverside Park ... ?

That would be much appreciated!

*bows*

Last edited by ylvs (2013-01-31 15:41:26)


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#2 2013-02-01 01:15:30

cyan
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From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

This endeavor could be difficult.  You saw the Sword & Laser interview.  If Veronica Belmont's perspective that San Judas represents the entire Bay Area region squished into one city (and Tad didn't disagree), then you're talking about spending a lot of time driving around.

Don't get me wrong, I'll happily chauffeur when I can to where ever you want to go.  I just don't think that there are enough points in fictional San Judas that correlate to real world Bay Area to make a viable tour of it.


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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#3 2013-02-01 01:35:34

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

I'd be happy with a few ... and actually the Sword & Laser interview gave me the idea for this.

If not, we'll find other stuff to do I have no doubt!


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#4 2013-02-01 02:06:57

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

ylvs wrote:

I'd be happy with a few ... and actually the Sword & Laser interview gave me the idea for this.

If not, we'll find other stuff to do I have no doubt!

Won't be hard to find other stuff to do here!

However....   I just sent you an email.  'Potential' is a lovely word.


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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#5 2013-02-01 11:18:07

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

The bank tower that is Vald's Evil HQ, the park, the Google offices, Stanford, and the scenic highway looking down upon the city all would be good tourist stops... potentially.


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#6 2013-02-01 12:08:05

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

No e-mail made it over the pond ...

*pouts*


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#7 2013-02-03 23:47:18

Jeremy_Erman
Pilgrim
From: California
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 262

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

I recently toured the “San Judas” area to take photos for an article that talks about this very issue, the relationship between The Dirty Streets of Heaven and the Bay Area. You might find it helpful:

http://www.blackgate.com/2013/01/21/dem … of-heaven/

Also, I’d be happy to recommend locations or meet up with anyone who wants to follow Bobby’s footsteps:)

 

#8 2013-02-03 23:49:48

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Thanks Jeremy! The article is terrific! This will be very helpful for our tour of "San Judas".


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
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Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#9 2013-02-04 00:16:23

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Welcome to the board Jeremy!

Thank you so much for the article ... stay around and get to know us!


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#10 2013-02-04 00:47:51

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

As Firsfron said ... terrific article ... the story about Tad's parents is hilarious ... and why exactly have you not been here for much longer? This is the home of Taddicts - and you obviously are one of us.

So welcome again, and please stick around!


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#11 2013-03-04 20:13:29

debraella
Pilgrim
Registered: 2013-03-04
Posts: 1

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

The "International Order of Islanders" hall sounds a lot like the Redwood City Odd Fellows Hall at 839 Main Street. Well, the outside sounds like, although the inside is not.

I belong to the Rebekah Lodge (women's part of Independent Order of Odd Fellows) that meets there.

 

#12 2013-03-11 14:47:32

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Hey Debrella, belated welcome!

I did not see this post until now.

We shall add that address to the SanJudas tour.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
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#13 2013-03-11 19:35:50

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

We should come up with some sort of plan for our San Judas tour.  It would be a bit silly to drive around aimlessly.


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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#14 2013-03-11 22:39:36

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

cyan wrote:

We should come up with some sort of plan for our San Judas tour.  It would be a bit silly to drive around aimlessly.

Done. :)


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
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Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#15 2013-03-11 22:47:43

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

I knew you'd put it together!


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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#16 2013-03-11 22:48:42

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Well, you know me pretty well, then.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#17 2013-03-20 01:55:56

Jeremy_Erman
Pilgrim
From: California
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 262

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

I would love to join the tour, schedule permitting. Can somone send me the schedule, or give me a rough idea when you'll be where?

 

#18 2013-03-20 18:36:56

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Jeremy_Erman wrote:

I would love to join the tour, schedule permitting. Can somone send me the schedule, or give me a rough idea when you'll be where?

Jeremy, the main thread for the Bay Area festivities is here. I'm having a little difficulty understanding the schedule, so I'll just direct you to the right thread, and you can make your own interpretations. :)


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#19 2013-03-20 19:28:46

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Jeremy_Erman wrote:

I would love to join the tour, schedule permitting. Can somone send me the schedule, or give me a rough idea when you'll be where?

Jeremy, the main thread for the Bay Area festivities is here. I'm having a little difficulty understanding the schedule, so I'll just direct you to the right thread, and you can make your own interpretations. :)

I thought it was perfectly clear that we're not sure where we would be or when we would be there.  ;-)


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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#20 2013-03-21 01:13:51

Auros
Pilgrim
From: San Mateo, CA
Registered: 2001-11-23
Posts: 7594
Website

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

ylvs wrote:

I'll be visiting SF in march and would very much like to do a tour around San Judas. So could you please point out locations that might be blueprints to San Judas places like Five Page Mill, Orban's dock or the Riverside Park ... ?

So, Five Page Mill almost certainly corresponds to a real location, Palo Alto Square.  The giant gleaming office tower described in the book isn't there, but there are some small drab office towers, and an arthouse theater.  I used to live at 556 Cambridge Ave -- walking distance northwest along El Camino.  California Avenue, the street between Cambridge and Page Mill, has some great restaurants (the Cuban place, La Bodeguita del Medio, is probably my fav), and a wonderful Sunday farmer's market.

The industrial docks described around the south end of the Bay are basically fictional; in the real world, Oakland and SF have big ports, but there isn't one down at the south end.  There are some small boat docks, and some areas where house boats hang out.  Here's one that I've biked past before.

I kind of think the island where the amusement park is, where the climactic battle occurs, may be based on Foster City, which is a completely artificial town just east of where I currently live; basically, they took all the earth they'd dug up in the course of building the San Mateo Bridge, and heaped it up to make a new small city.  Someday there will be a really big earthquake, and the whole damn town will slide into the Bay.  The boardwalk around Central Lake is quite pretty, as is the waterfront.  If you go north past the bridge, you get to the Seal Point Park wind sculpture collection, and north of that Coyote Point, which is generally pretty and has a nifty museum...

The place along the bayfront that most resembles the kind of industrial district described for Orban's docks and the location of the cleared-out warehouse space where BD almost catches the Reverend is probably here right at the south tip of the Bay.  There are, in fact, a bunch of warehouses down there, in the area of Zanker Rd.

For the bar near Stanford -- so, there's a city called East Palo Alto, which is basically where Palo Alto puts its poor people.  It's a separate city, and actually in a separate county (San Mateo County, whereas Palo Alto is in Santa Clara County).  It was incorporated when the people in unincorporated southeastern San Mateo County realized that Menlo Park was determined to annex any land that had anything valuable on it (like the former Sun Microsystems campus, which now belongs to Facebook), which was undermining the tax base to provide any kind of decent services or schools.  There's one small slice of EPA that's west of Route 101: a neighborhood called Whiskey Gulch.  I am told that at one time, there weren't any bars close to the Stanford campus, b/c Stanford had successfully lobbied the surrounding town to not provide them.  But there were several extremely disreputable bars in Whiskey Gulch.  However, about 10-15 years ago the neighborhood started gentrifying, and now the most prominent feature is a Four Seasons Hotel which serves as a site for tech conventions and the like.  This is another place I've lived close to -- I was up at 2026 Poplar, when I first moved in with my then-gf, now-spouse. :-)

The other place where Stanford students went to drink was actually down in the previously-mentioned California Ave area.  That was originally the downtown drag of a town called Mayfield, which eventually got rolled into modern Palo Alto.  Cal Ave today is very gentrified -- there's a nice wine shop, but the closest you can find to a disreputable bar is to get a mojito at La Bodeguita.

I'm sure there are still some disreputable bars across into EPA, on the east side of 101, though.

I'm having trouble thinking of any more good analogues to stuff in the book.  I've poked Tad and Deb about maybe producing an overlay map...

Last edited by Auros (2013-03-23 12:42:58)


Irreverent Father Auros, High Priest of the Church of Erotic Pantheism
the Aurosphere -- Me, myself, and I.
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#21 2013-03-21 01:20:33

Auros
Pilgrim
From: San Mateo, CA
Registered: 2001-11-23
Posts: 7594
Website

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Oh, and another possibility for the Order of Islanders would be that there's another of those Independent Order of Odd Fellows lodges in Mountain View, on Castro St.

There may be others around, too.

It actually kinda sounded to me, in the book, like that location was being placed someplace further south, maybe somewhere around downtown San Jose.  But it's pretty hard to tell for sure.

Oh, and the pig farm could be anywhere out in the boonies west of Interstate 280.  There are a lot of gorgeous hiking trails out there, especially at Big Basin.  I've also gone up to Monte Bello Open Space Preserve at night for stargazing.

Also, while there is a real Shoreline Park, its shoreline is on the Bay, facing east.  To see sunset, you'd want to go out to the end of either 92 or 84, both of which end near public beaches.

Last edited by Auros (2013-03-21 01:26:23)


Irreverent Father Auros, High Priest of the Church of Erotic Pantheism
the Aurosphere -- Me, myself, and I.
Strange Horizons -- Your weekly source for speculative fiction.
The Resistance wants YOU to defend humanity from Alien Mind Control!

 

#22 2013-03-24 19:13:39

Auros
Pilgrim
From: San Mateo, CA
Registered: 2001-11-23
Posts: 7594
Website

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Another thought -- the location where the big investigatory confab happens, late in the story, could be a much fancier version of Michael's at Shoreline, which is a small restaurant / club / conference center in the real-world Shoreline Park.

Alternately, it could be either the Oracle Conference Center (which is in either Redwood Shores or Redwood City, I forget which), or perhaps the Crowne Plaza in Foster City.  (I forget, does Bobby go on foot from the conference, to getting chased by the ghallu, all the way to the amusement park?  If so, this link would make perfect sense, since it would put both locations in the landfill area at the base of the San Mateo Bridge, a totally reasonble non-car distance.)

Anyways.  I still say we all need to gang up on Tad to demand a map.


Irreverent Father Auros, High Priest of the Church of Erotic Pantheism
the Aurosphere -- Me, myself, and I.
Strange Horizons -- Your weekly source for speculative fiction.
The Resistance wants YOU to defend humanity from Alien Mind Control!

 

#23 2013-03-24 21:06:32

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Auros wrote:

Anyways.  I still say we all need to gang up on Tad to demand a map.

I agree!


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#24 2013-03-25 00:29:43

Jeremy_Erman
Pilgrim
From: California
Registered: 2012-06-24
Posts: 262

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

cyan wrote:

We should come up with some sort of plan for our San Judas tour.  It would be a bit silly to drive around aimlessly.

Done. :)

Note that the San Judas Hall of Justice corresponds to the San Mateo County Hall of Justice in Redwood City rather than the Santa Clara Hall of Justice. San Judas does not appear to extend south of Mountain View (aka "the Miramonte District").

 

#25 2013-03-25 01:24:33

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: Tourist map of San Judas

Jeremy_Erman wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

cyan wrote:

We should come up with some sort of plan for our San Judas tour.  It would be a bit silly to drive around aimlessly.

Done. :)

Note that the San Judas Hall of Justice corresponds to the San Mateo County Hall of Justice in Redwood City rather than the Santa Clara Hall of Justice. San Judas does not appear to extend south of Mountain View (aka "the Miramonte District").

Thanks Jeremy. I have updated the map to reflect your correction, which makes the tour locations less spread out. When I had originally done a Google Maps search for "Hall of Justice", it didn't (and still doesn't) show any results for Redwood City. This is why I placed it in San Jose: I simply didn't know there was a Hall of Justice in Redwood City. But a simple Google search confirms that the San Mateo Court is indeed also called the Hall of Justice.

This is why it's great having locals (like you) review the locations on the map! So thanks again. :)


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

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