Tad Williams' Message Board

Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- 'God damn it, you've got to be kind.'
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#1 2013-01-27 13:20:32

Magpie
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The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

OK, folks, we're at the halfway point!
As I said in the last thread, let's try to get back on schedule - no more of those month-long "weeks"!

No intelligent thoughts have come to mind while reading these two chapters... but then, I rarely feel very intelligent, and it might also have to do with the fact that my mother and grandmother were in the same room, having one of those super-pointless village-gossip-and-old-age-ouchies conversations that makes me want to beat my head against the table...

Anyway. I'll just sum the chapters up to get us started, maybe I'll think of something after all when I flip through them again.

Ch. 18 - poison darts and fiji mermaids

No direct quote for the chapter title, just two of the things on display in the Islanders Hall.

Bobby is driving around and thinking, until he is interrupted by a phone call from Fatback. He's found a bit of information on the Magian Society, but nothing that reveals what they actually do, discovered that Grasswax was in debt to someone even higher in the Hellish hierarchy than Eligor, and that whatever it is that Bobby is supposed to have, it is "a [i]gold[i] one."
The next evening, Foxy guy sets up the auction for the mysterious object. Sam is supposed to be there, but doesn't turn up, and none of the potential buyers let slip any information about what they are trying to buy - and because good (and bad) things always come in threes, the door bursts open and people with guns burst in.

Ch. 19 - one night only

Quote from the sign next to the door of The Compasses - "Tonight - One Night Only! Gabriel and His Hot Trumpet at the Living End[/b]

Bobby manages to escape through a back door, although he encounters Howlingfell there and briefly and unsuccessfully tries to get some information out of him. When he climbs the fence, he collides with one of his potential buyers, who finally reveals what the mysterious object is - a feather.
Bobby runs for his car, and it's only Sam's warning that saves him from being beheaded by the ghallu.
Shooting the ghallu doesn't do much good, but distracts it long enough that Sam and Bobby get into the car, followed by several pages of shooting and being chased and cars being wrecked, but they finally make it to The Compasses. Everyone starts making frantic preparations, but in the wrong spot - because instead of the door, the ghallu bursts in through the window.



There's one thing that jumped out at me and made me laugh before my nattering family ruined my ability to think: Early in ch. 18, Bobby thinks, "Jude is like one of those favorite books where you find something new every time you open it."
Which is how I feel about Tad's books, and I guess I'm not the only one. ;) I wonder if it's weird to write something like that knowing that people feel that way about your own books.

Last edited by Magpie (2013-01-27 13:22:37)


Basically, I'm Prince Josua in jeans and sneakers, or a different flavor of Renie Sulaweyo.
- Tad

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#2 2013-01-27 20:47:02

Firsfron of Ronchester
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Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

I really enjoyed these two chapters, especially reading in Chapter 18 about Bobby's opinions about what makes San Judas so great. It's clear that Tad is drawing on his own experiences, and is proud of his hometown.

Random thoughts...

I couldn't find the Woodside Highway described in the text, but there is a Woodside Road (which is a highway) a few miles northwest of Stanford. Skyline Boulevard joins it, and is exactly as described in the text.

The El Camino Real where the chase scene happens in Chapter 19 is a real street in Santa Clara, but as far as I can tell, the cross-street names are fictionalized. The only Oak Avenue I could find doesn't intersect with El Camino Real.

Bobby keeps a box of cassette tapes on the floor of his car... how are they even playable, having sat in a hot car for that long?

On my first reading of the book, I had a bad feeling about Sam starting in Chapter 18, when he failed to show up for the auction.


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Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#3 2013-01-28 14:12:37

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

I'm here. I read. I appreciate. No time. Wednesday. Promise.


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#4 2013-01-28 14:35:53

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
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Posts: 23117
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Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

No problem. Take your time. Many people no posty. Cyan. Neemo. Lurker-types. :)


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
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Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#5 2013-01-28 21:06:35

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Many people no posty. Cyan.

I prefer to think of my posting schedule as impromtu and organic.  ;-)


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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#6 2013-01-28 23:53:07

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
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Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

Actually, I know exactly what you mean, Cyan. They really do have to be organic. :) I usually give my original post a couple of days' thought before I feel "ready" to write. Sometimes, I can't think of too much that hasn't already been covered. Sometimes I can.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
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Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#7 2013-01-29 00:30:04

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

And then it takes me ages to write it when I actually sit down. I ponder every sentence for correctness and if I could say that more elegantly and find myself rewriting the stuff again and again ... if I only could write stuff down and be done with it like elsewhere on the forum!


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#8 2013-01-29 19:47:53

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

I, too, spend a fair amount time thinking about my post before writing them.  And a fair amount of time editing my post, to make sure I make as much sense to someone not in my head as possible.  I just started Ch. 19, so it'll be a couple days before I'm ready to post on this week's thread.

If you all don't mind going back a little, I just re-read last "week"'s thread and was a little surprised that no one really discussed Bobby's (and Sam's) previous career.  Or more specifically, that such a thing as an 'Avenging Angel' corp exists.  It sounds like some really hard core stuff, and I'm curious as to the justification used by Heaven's upper echelon to justify using tactics that one would expect from the other side.  It doesn't sound like a particularly Heavenly approach.


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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#9 2013-01-30 00:51:28

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

The justification probably  goes along the line for the greater Good a few detours are ok ...


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#10 2013-01-30 05:54:44

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

Magpie wrote:

OK, folks, we're at the halfway point!
As I said in the last thread, let's try to get back on schedule - no more of those month-long "weeks"!

There's one thing that jumped out at me and made me laugh before my nattering family ruined my ability to think: Early in ch. 18, Bobby thinks, "Jude is like one of those favorite books where you find something new every time you open it."
Which is how I feel about Tad's books, and I guess I'm not the only one. ;) I wonder if it's weird to write something like that knowing that people feel that way about your own books.

I'm willing to try. On the other hand if it drags a bit we might be finished right at the time Happy Hour hits the shelves.

This quote jumped out at all of us I'm sure. I believe it must be a warm and uplifting feeling being able to write a phrase like that. Knowing that your work brings joy to so many people ... now that sounds unctuous.

*word provided by dictionary* Looks weird.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#11 2013-01-30 06:44:57

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Bobby keeps a box of cassette tapes on the floor of his car... how are they even playable, having sat in a hot car for that long?

Caugth you at not reading carefully Firs.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

He's not in [i]his[/] car anymore but the one he borrowed from Orban.
That ramble about cars on p. 189 was complety wasted on me, btw. Do not know a single car type mentioned ... and contrary to weird sounding names of demons I'm not interested enough to look them up.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#12 2013-01-30 06:45:57

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

In these last chapters there is the ever growing theme of Heaven's justification - culminating for the time being in this (p.195):

Guys like this client, well, that's exactly who Hell was made for, that seemed clear - but forever? Did people really get sent off to flail screaming in pits of molten lava and blazing feces forever? I was pretty sure that even the drunken wife-beater didn't deserve to burn for longer that the stars themselves.

There is no redemption for the dammed. Is that fair? Doubtdoubtdoubt.

More random thoughts:

Right at the beginning of chapter 18 there is a little bit of dated information about Venice and how it becomes empty in winter and the residents pretty much have it to themselves when tourist season slows during winter. That is like it used to be but not anymore. My parents visited Venice last November (for the first time in ten years) and came home very disappointed as it had been packed with people. No space for pigeons to land anywhere on Marcus Square and no empty back canals and ways - none at all. And if there is a low season for tourists it's in the end of november, even Italy i s gry and rainy then.

There actually is an Aleister Crowley cult although not Japanese. Glad that I checked before writing because the only Crowley I know is tha demon in Good Omens who probably got that name for the very reason.

Hupsi. Have not even read chapter 19. Medea is due shortly. Later then *sighs*


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#13 2013-01-30 09:52:44

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

Read a bit more and found out that "Crowley has remained an influential figure and is widely thought of as the most influential occultist of all time." So probaly you all knew him any way - I did not.


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#14 2013-01-30 13:04:28

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
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Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

ylvs wrote:

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

Bobby keeps a box of cassette tapes on the floor of his car... how are they even playable, having sat in a hot car for that long?

Caugth you at not reading carefully Firs.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

He's not in [i]his[/] car anymore but the one he borrowed from Orban.

Well, it wasn't a case of me reading carefully (as I knew it was lent by Orban), but a matter of incorrect wording. I better be more careful!

That ramble about cars on p. 189 was complety wasted on me, btw. Do not know a single car type mentioned ... and contrary to weird sounding names of demons I'm not interested enough to look them up.

I think it's part of the urban noir genre to wax poetic about a classic car.


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
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Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#15 2013-01-30 13:12:34

Magpie
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From: miraculously thistle-free town
Registered: 2006-03-27
Posts: 32660
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Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

ylvs wrote:

Read a bit more and found out that "Crowley has remained an influential figure and is widely thought of as the most influential occultist of all time." So probaly you all knew him any way - I did not.

The name was vaguely familiar, but I couldn't tell you where or when I heard/read it, let alone who he was. So thanks for looking it up!


Basically, I'm Prince Josua in jeans and sneakers, or a different flavor of Renie Sulaweyo.
- Tad

Master of Gardening, Mistress of Kingdom Plantae, Defender of the Seedlings, Guardian of Root and Bough
Scrollbearer and offerer of some very useful opinions

Online

 

#16 2013-01-30 13:34:57

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

Firsfron of Ronchester wrote:

ylvs wrote:

That ramble about cars on p. 189 was complety wasted on me, btw. Do not know a single car type mentioned ... and contrary to weird sounding names of demons I'm not interested enough to look them up.

I think it's part of the urban noir genre to wax poetic about a classic car.

Most definetly. The difference is that I had pictures in my mind when reading Chandler and Hammet because it was mostly non specific cars. And here with all the brand names I don't know I don't get a picture and my question is: does this scene speak to you, can you envision it?

Which leads me to the following: Knowing to be able to drive around San Judas adds much to my excitement about my trip to SF in spring!


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
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#17 2013-01-30 21:10:42

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

ylvs wrote:

The justification probably  goes along the line for the greater Good a few detours are ok ...

Yes, I agree that that's prolly how it got started - a detour here, an exception there - all for the "greater good".  What Bobby describes sounds to me like they slid all the way down that slippery slope.  Is it an 'ends justifies the means' approach?


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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#18 2013-01-30 22:56:06

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

ylvs wrote:

That ramble about cars on p. 189 was complety wasted on me, btw. Do not know a single car type mentioned

If I'm not mistaken, they're all older American-made cars, huge things made with a heavy steel body.  We (my generation) called them 'boats', they were long and wide, tended to wallow, and difficult to navigate on narrow city streets.  "Bonneville" is the name of the car; "Pontiac" is the name of the manufacturer that produced the car.  Production of the "Bonneville" ceased in 1991 (according to Wikipedia), and I'm not sure that "Pontiac" as a division of General Motors is even viable anymore (though anything can happen, General Motors, who owns 'Pontiac,' is doing not bad these days).  So regardless of the production year of the Bonneville that Orban loaned Bobby, that's at the very least 20 year old car.  Having it start up on the first 'crank of the engine' while being attacked by one of the oldest, baddest, and nearly indestructible creatures from hell?  Good mechanics are worth their weight in gold.

Okay, Doug just came home and so I'm tapping his brain:
"If it's a later model Bonneville, it would be similar to the Ford "Crown Victoria"" - which is pretty much the standard police vehicle used around here.


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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#19 2013-01-31 00:14:31

cyan
Mantis
From: Magic Loft of Design & Wonder
Registered: 2005-02-16
Posts: 26870

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

Also: V8 does not refer to a tomato and vegetable based juice beverage, but rather [Doug says] the number of pistons and the arrangement of said pistons on the engine block.


"Never underestimate the power and accuracy of a chicken-chucking trebuchet." ~ Tad

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#20 2013-01-31 00:30:56

Firsfron of Ronchester
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From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
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Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

Good explanations, Cyan (and Doug). For the record, Pontiac was discontinued in 2010; they're out of business now. I never owned one (but I did own two other GM vehicles (an '83 Buick Skylark and an '85 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Brougham, both well-worn by the time I owned them).

Last edited by Firsfron of Ronchester (2013-01-31 00:32:03)


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#21 2013-01-31 11:37:55

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

cyan wrote:

Also: V8 does not refer to a tomato and vegetable based juice beverage, but rather [Doug says] the number of pistons and the arrangement of said pistons on the engine block.

I knew that! I knew that!

*is very proud to have some car related knowledge*

*waits to be applauded*

*gives up*


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#22 2013-01-31 11:41:23

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

I've nothing more to add content wise ... anybody else or are we truely done in one week?

*eyes around suspiciously*


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#23 2013-01-31 11:44:45

Firsfron of Ronchester
Mantis
From: Ronchester
Registered: 2001-06-04
Posts: 23117
Website

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

Neemo never posted. That's not like him. Neem?


Scrollbearer, Keeper of the Firsfronicon, Message Board Poet Lariat and Guardian of the Wild Range.
Co-titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Now-official Osten Ard consultant for Tad Williams

Ommu is horrifying; Akhenabi is f**king evil; Makho is Trump with a badass sword; Jijibo is the crackhead version of Towser.  And Saomeji is creepy. --Cyan

 

#24 2013-01-31 11:48:55

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

Did he post at all since we "restarted"? Maybe he did not notice it's up again.

*runs over to check Neemo's postiness*


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

#25 2013-01-31 11:53:28

ylvs
Mantis
From: Art Central
Registered: 2001-06-19
Posts: 13270

Re: The Dirty Streets Of Heaven (re)read week 10, chps 18 & 19 *SPOILERS*

No Neemo this year. Will pm him.

Very attentive as usual.

*bows to the one of Ronchester*


To meet an old friend is like the finding of a welcoming campfire in the dark. Qanuc saying
Scrollbearer
Titan of fact-checking and priceless source of Osten-Ard-iana
Arsonist of the probably most spectacular Mint burning ever

 

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